Joe Navarro

I, along with five other agents out of 12,000, were selected from the FBI to become part of this new behavioral analysis program, which was supposed to be classified, except it was accidentally leaked. And our job was to look at the threats, national security threats, and then see how we can use our knowledge of human behavior to then attack that.

So every nation state has interests. A lot of it is obtained through diplomacy. A lot of it is now obtained through what we call espionage. So it's nothing like television and the movies. Some nations, especially hostile nations, send what we call hostile intelligence officers, usually masquerading as a diplomat, but often masquerading as students or scientists or...

So every nation state has interests. A lot of it is obtained through diplomacy. A lot of it is now obtained through what we call espionage. So it's nothing like television and the movies. Some nations, especially hostile nations, send what we call hostile intelligence officers, usually masquerading as a diplomat, but often masquerading as students or scientists or...

businessmen and their job is to acquire knowledge in specific areas, military knowledge, science and research, intentions and plans, military intentions and plans, Or they may have interest in, for instance, what is going to be the wheat production in Argentina this year, because it may affect the price of grain across the world. So there's commercial espionage that goes on.

businessmen and their job is to acquire knowledge in specific areas, military knowledge, science and research, intentions and plans, military intentions and plans, Or they may have interest in, for instance, what is going to be the wheat production in Argentina this year, because it may affect the price of grain across the world. So there's commercial espionage that goes on.

And so every nation defends itself by trying to identify, well, who is here trying to spy? So that's what we do. That's counterintelligence. That's espionage. And it's nothing like the movies. We don't jump from buildings. Although we do that sometimes, but it's not as glamorous as the James Bond stuff. So have you caught spies before? I have. I've arrested spies, multiple spies.

And so every nation defends itself by trying to identify, well, who is here trying to spy? So that's what we do. That's counterintelligence. That's espionage. And it's nothing like the movies. We don't jump from buildings. Although we do that sometimes, but it's not as glamorous as the James Bond stuff. So have you caught spies before? I have. I've arrested spies, multiple spies.

Well, as it turns out, it was an American, because we also have what we call turncoats. So in the case of Roderick James Ramsey, he was an individual who, in 1989, I was asked to go interview because we thought he was a witness to something that had happened in Germany. The former army sergeant had been kicked out of the army.

Well, as it turns out, it was an American, because we also have what we call turncoats. So in the case of Roderick James Ramsey, he was an individual who, in 1989, I was asked to go interview because we thought he was a witness to something that had happened in Germany. The former army sergeant had been kicked out of the army.

The military wanted to find out if he knew anything about some missing documents, if he had seen anything. During my interview of him, which again, I thought he was a witness, he was smoking a cigarette at his house. And I just mentioned an individual's name that had been at that base, but who had been under investigation by German authorities.

The military wanted to find out if he knew anything about some missing documents, if he had seen anything. During my interview of him, which again, I thought he was a witness, he was smoking a cigarette at his house. And I just mentioned an individual's name that had been at that base, but who had been under investigation by German authorities.

In fact, by the Bundeskriminalamt, which is the equivalent of the FBI. There's no reason why he should react to that. It's just a name. But when I mentioned the name, his cigarette shook. And I knew enough about human behaviors to know that that physiological change had to be caused by something significant. Why would a name affect him?

In fact, by the Bundeskriminalamt, which is the equivalent of the FBI. There's no reason why he should react to that. It's just a name. But when I mentioned the name, his cigarette shook. And I knew enough about human behaviors to know that that physiological change had to be caused by something significant. Why would a name affect him?

And so the scientific method talked to him for 20 more minutes about something else. And then I mentioned that name again. And sure enough, his cigarette shook again. And at that point, I was convinced that there was something nefarious there. As it turns out, the Germans arrested Conrad. Clyde Conrad, that was the name of the person that had been under suspicion.

And so the scientific method talked to him for 20 more minutes about something else. And then I mentioned that name again. And sure enough, his cigarette shook again. And at that point, I was convinced that there was something nefarious there. As it turns out, the Germans arrested Conrad. Clyde Conrad, that was the name of the person that had been under suspicion.

The guy that I was interviewing, Rod Ramsey, was not. And so I left that interview and then I persuaded my supervisors to continue to talk to Rod Ramsey. And that led to a 10-year investigation and the arrest of three, four, five, six, seven additional individuals.

The guy that I was interviewing, Rod Ramsey, was not. And so I left that interview and then I persuaded my supervisors to continue to talk to Rod Ramsey. And that led to a 10-year investigation and the arrest of three, four, five, six, seven additional individuals.

What he was doing, and that's a good question, and forgive me for not explaining. While he was in the army, he and Clyde Lee Conrad were stealing military secrets. From? From the US Army. They were taking US Army secrets and then selling it to the Soviet Union through the Hungarian intelligence service. So he was a traitor of the United States. So he was a traitor.

What he was doing, and that's a good question, and forgive me for not explaining. While he was in the army, he and Clyde Lee Conrad were stealing military secrets. From? From the US Army. They were taking US Army secrets and then selling it to the Soviet Union through the Hungarian intelligence service. So he was a traitor of the United States. So he was a traitor.

And that is often the biggest problem for any nation state is the traders from within. And they had elevated espionage to an industrial level. I mean, to the point where they actually no longer even use 35 millimeter cameras to photograph the documents. They were actually videotaping them so that they could expedite the thousands of pages.