Joe Wiesenthal

No, it makes sense.

And I didn't necessarily expect the interview to go in this direction, but I'm actually just going to press you further on this specific point, which is, what is your diagnosis of why certain countries do seem to have given up?

Was there a moment when you felt it, for example, okay, in the UK?

Was there a moment where you felt...

the ambition is not the same as it once was.

You mentioned creative energy and, of course, one of your famous relatively recent buildings is, of course, the big circular building for Apple.

And that's a strange situation, I imagine, because here is a company

that is also known for an insane amount of creative energy in more or less the same realm as yourself of visual design, right, et cetera.

Was that a unique experience or a distinct experience to work on a building for a company whose main thing is also in large part visual aesthetic?

This sort of leads to my next question, and it kind of relates to, I guess, the sort of cliche, what should young architects or aspiring architects think about?

But one dimension that I'm particularly interested in is, okay, you talk about how in the ideal scenario, the engineers, the construction firm, the architects, they're all there from the beginning.

That's not handoff, and that sounds really great, and it seems to yield great results.

But you're breaking down silos also.

On the other hand, that model also means that when the client comes with the budget,

the architect just gets one slice of it, right?

And so perhaps, and you know, architects in the US is sort of famous for as professionals on like say doctors, lawyers, et cetera, they're not paid as well as others.

And maybe it's because, you know, they're sharing the pie with many other entities.

What should aspiring architects think about to not just have like a satisfied career, but also a remunerative career that can sustain themselves?

I have one last question.

I have no idea if you like the term or find the term Starkitect annoying or not, but when you see a list of them, you're one of them.