John Gruber

So we have to start the show with just the obvious news of the week.

John, this is why you're here, because of course you're here to talk with us about the succession at Apple.

Tim Cook is out.

John Ternus is in.

Nila, you and I did a live podcast sort of immediately reacting to this on Tuesday.

We've had a couple of days to settle in.

We've seen some more reporting.

Both executives have talked a little bit.

We have some new stuff to talk about.

And I also made a list of every product Apple has released under Tim Cook and we are going to debate his legacy as a product person, which I'm very excited about.

But John, I just wanna start with you and go back to Monday for me when all of this started to happen.

You you've been covering sort of the rumors and speculation of the will they won't they of this succession plan for a while.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Nili is, are you surprised this happened?

And were you surprised it happened when it did?

Yeah, I think that's right.

Neil, do you feel any differently now with a few days of hindsight?

We were both definitely caught off guard.

Just a little bit of inside baseball.

My favorite thing that happened here was Neil, I was off recording.

I think you were doing something for Decoder, right?