John Gruber

That was like in the middle of it.

That episode just came out.

It's very good.

And when you do that, it's like the only time you're very hard to get in touch with because you have to like turn things off to go record audio for a long time.

I had to call you and you picked up and you were like, I think you think when I call you, it's like some horrible emergency is happening.

Always.

Every single time.

I called and you picked up and you're like, hey, what's going on?

And I was like, are you recording Decoder?

And you're like, yeah.

And I was like, you should stop because Tim Cook is leaving.

He just goes, okay, bye.

And hangs up the phone.

Do you think that's a Steve Jobs thing?

Like, Neil, you mentioned that, right?

Then, like, obviously the last time a CEO succession at Apple happened was because of Steve Jobs' health.

Do you think that's what's on his mind, or are people just trying to figure out why is this happening now?

Because, again, like, you and I have talked about this, Neil, that there was a sense when Trump was elected again that all of the big tech CEOs were now essentially tied to their job through the end of the Trump administration because...

You just, you couldn't, it was the devil you know, right?

So I think there was a little bit of surprise that this happened this way.