John J. Mearsheimer

And then, of course, the lobby went to enormous lengths to make sure that we got as little attention as possible.

They ended up getting us canceled at Google.

We were supposed to give a big talk at Google, and the lobby moved in and got that talk canceled.

We were supposed to give a big talk at the Chicago Council on Foreign Relations, which the lobby then got canceled.

Yeah.

nothing but trouble everywhere and uh that makes it incredibly interesting yes and uh and depressing at the same time i do wake up sometimes in the morning depressed at the thought that i'm now going to have to go read all the newspapers and all the websites and get the bad news but it is a fascinating world and trying to make sense of it uh is a very interesting business so you know the idea of coming here to talk to you is very enticing because we get to

sort of feel our way around and try and figure out what's going on.

That's just incredible.

I think with regard to both the Ukraine war and the war against Iran, profound change is going to result from both.

I think that Putin is going to win in Ukraine.

Ukraine is going to end up as a dysfunctional rump state.

I think in the process of this war, NATO has been wrecked.

The U.S.-European transatlantic relationship has been badly damaged.

And if you go to the Middle East, I think the Iranians are going to come out of this war in much better shape than they went into the war on February 28th.

And I think that America's position in the Middle East and certainly Israel's position is going to be badly damaged as a result of this war.

I find it hard to answer that question because I'm so concerned about both conflicts.

Yes.

Let's start with Ukraine.

Yeah.

And I would just say as a general point, I think that the worst outcome in both cases, and I can expound on each, is the possibility of nuclear weapons being used.