John Mearsheimer

dysfunctional rump state that Ukraine becomes, but the Russians will go to great lengths to sow dissension within the alliance, and that includes in terms of transatlantic relations.

So you'll have this continuing security competition between Russia on one side and Ukraine and the West on the other, even when you get a frozen peace.

or you get a frozen conflict.

And the potential for escalation there will be great.

So I think this is a disaster.

Three people in the room.

Well, I think if the United States is involved, the answer is definitely no.

You have to get the Americans out.

And then I think if you have Zelensky and Putin talking, you have a sliver of a chance there.

The Americans are...

a real problem.

Look, let's go back to what happens right after the war starts.

Okay.

As I said before, this is, we're talking March, early April of 2022.

The war starts on February 24th, 2022.

And as I said to you, uh,

The two sides were negotiating in Istanbul, and they were also negotiating through Naftali Bennett.

And the Bennett track and the Turkish track were operating together.

I mean, they were not at cross purposes at all.

What happened?