John R. Miles

And as you think about meaning and how we're so much today in this us versus them type of mentality, how do the two connect?

Yeah, I'm not sure why my mind went to this, but as you were talking about that act of Jesus, I was thinking about when he is with his disciples and he's on his knees washing their feet.

Right.

And when I think of this us versus them, I often think how many of us would do that same thing to those around us that Jesus did, humble yourself in front of those around you.

What are your thoughts on that?

Arthur, I did a whole series on transcendence a few years ago.

I had, I had Dacker Scott, Barry Kaufman, David and David Vago all in succession and Andrew Newberg.

And it was so fascinating how these out of body type of experiences that we get into and you can get into them using psychedelics.

What they were saying is you get into them the most by observing acts of kindness.

that others are doing really renews faith.

But more than that, it reminds you that the world matters.

People matter in it.

You still matter in the world.

Is that what your research has found as well?

I love that.

Speaking of that course, when I was at the Academy, we had to take celestial navigation.

And all of us used to always wonder, in the age of GPS, why are you making us learn to study the stars?

Well, that's the exact answer we got from our professors.

It has come in handy for me one time.

I happened to be on a sailboat