John Smith

And I think that that is an argument.

I mean, he went through the masochism strategy when he was trying to tell people about why the war in Iraq

was the right thing to be doing.

And I think he left a lot of the public behind.

But I suppose Tony Blair's great advantage and simultaneously his disadvantage is that he is not and never really has been a part of the Labour tribe.

And you're right, Lewis, he did frame things in the third way and he talked about social justice and he talked a lot about those things in the early days of New Labour.

But the appeal...

of Tony Blair back in 1994 when John Smith had died was that he spoke a different kind of language.

There was a straight choice for the Labour Party.

There was either going to be Gordon Brown or it was going to be Tony Blair.

And they went for Tony Blair because he was obviously such a commanding kind of slick communicator and would appeal to parts of Britain that the Labour Party, frankly, was struggling to reach ever since Labour lost power in 1979.

So he was never part of the tribe.

But the Labour Party recognised that they needed him.

And so for a while, the Labour Party itself tried to learn to speak Blairism, tried to learn to speak the third way, tried to become much more New Labour.

And now I think that that is just seen as a distant, long-ago period.

And we've spoken before on the podcast, one about the lack of clear narrative, ambition, policy direction of this government, but also the failure to communicate and engage the public with it.

And I think that those things are...

what Blair was addressing in the essay that he wrote.

And I was in touch with someone last night, close to Blair himself, and this person said, you know, we're really pleased with the way this has landed.

I tend to agree with you, Lewis.