John Zito

You look at some of the multi-managers, I mean, they're charging pretty high fee.

They can charge it because- Net returns.

They've had great high net returns with low vol.

And if you can do that over long periods of time with large swaths of capital, people will pay fee because they feel like it's differentiated.

As you get into products or other things that get more commoditized, and you've seen that happen in parts of the really investment grade, take investment grade liquid credit, fees go down a lot.

We're really around the more privately originated IG that you can't get elsewhere.

And the reason that we've created this platform business is to control all that collateral where no one else can really get it other than unless you own those origination machines.

Yeah.

So.

We feel like because we have those 4,000 people just originating assets that are completely diversifiers to the rest of anyone's credit portfolio, we should get compensated in some form.

Where the fee settles out, it'll be somewhat dependent on overall rates and everything else.

When rates were zero, it felt like fees were going to collapse.

When rates go higher as a percentage of your aggregate return, if you're making 10%, you can charge fee.

When credit was making 4%, fees collapsed because the net excess relative to the total return ended up being a lot.

In alternative products, you've got to deliver the artistry.

If the client doesn't feel like they're getting something opportunistic or special and they don't feel like they're getting either, there's been tremendous push on Co-Invest, which effectively has been a fee reducer, not from headline fee, but effectively a mechanism to fee reduce.

You need to partner with clients now in a completely different way than 10, 15 years ago.

They've fully built out their own.

Many of them have built out their own fully capable, very productive, very smart teams that are willing and want to co-underwrite risk with you.

And so it's much more of a partnership approach than it ever has been.