John

Yeah.

In Brownsville, Texas.

Yeah.

But if you go back to these people who really

been very effective in a technical capacity at Tesla, at SpaceX and those sorts of places.

What do you think they have in common other than, is it just that they're very sharp on the rocketry or the technical foundations?

Or do you think it's something organizational, it's something about their ability to work with you?

Is this their ability to be flexible, but not too flexible?

What makes a good sparring partner for you?

famously you switched the uh starship design from composites to steel yes and you made that decision like that wasn't a you know people were going around they're like oh we found something better boss like that was you encouraging people against some resistance can you tell us how you came to that whole composite steel switch uh yeah so desperation i'd say um the um

And it had been picked in the first place just because it's light.

It was dumb not to do steal.

Okay, but to play this back to you, what I'm hearing is that...

Steel was a riskier, less proven path other than the early US rockets versus carbon fiber was like a worse but more proven out path.

And so you need to be the one to push for, hey, we're going to do this riskier path and just figure it out.

And so you were fighting like a sort of conservatism in a sense.

One other Starship question.

So I visited Starbase two years ago with Sam Teller, and that was awesome.

It was very cool to see in a whole bunch of ways.

One thing I noticed was that people really took pride in the simplicity of things, where everyone wants to tell you how