Jon Sopel

But there is that, you know, if you look closely, there is a gap between why did they put the red box and not tell him?

Why did he say he'd never seen...

The piece of paper in which they are clearly saying red means danger.

And so I guess that also helps Keir Starmer a little bit say, well, it was kind of weird.

If you step back, it was weird.

I didn't know about that whole thing.

And she has gone too far because she, as you would say, went straight for the jugular instead of the leg.

She just accused him of being a liar.

Look, I think you've said something that we should sort of dwell on a little bit, actually, which is the difficulty of the political apology.

in actually making the story go away.

Because there is a certain hypocrisy, and I think it comes from the press, it comes from us, it comes from the public.

You know, we're always braying for apologies, right?

We're always braying for an apology to clear the air, to allow things to move on, to get closure.

And then, I mean, if you look at Nick Clegg, all those years ago over tuition fees, he did not make things better with that apology.

He just became...

the centre of so much hatred, particularly amongst the young, understandably, for what he then did and for how he'd apologised and for basically saying, yeah, you know.

Actually, I caved in to my master's, the Tories, and I don't think he ever recovered from that.

And I don't want that to be the narrative, but I can see how Starmer was a very different man six years ago.

I mean, you can see it in his face.

When he stood up and said, as Director of Public Prosecutions, I had 8,000 members of staff and I...