Jonathan Haidt

So stories are great. There's no problem with stories, no problem with Netflix. And then I say, how many of you use TikTok or one of those programs at least once a week? Not everybody, but the great majority of hands go up. How many of you wish that it was never invented? The great majority of hands go up.

So stories are great. There's no problem with stories, no problem with Netflix. And then I say, how many of you use TikTok or one of those programs at least once a week? Not everybody, but the great majority of hands go up. How many of you wish that it was never invented? The great majority of hands go up.

And what's happening, and these are 19 year old, they're smart kids, they're mostly sophomores at New York University Stern School of Business. But these things aren't stories. A story is entertaining, but it doesn't give you a huge hit of dopamine. If it's really well told, it can be an aesthetic experience. You lose yourself, but it's not about the quick dopamine reward system.

And what's happening, and these are 19 year old, they're smart kids, they're mostly sophomores at New York University Stern School of Business. But these things aren't stories. A story is entertaining, but it doesn't give you a huge hit of dopamine. If it's really well told, it can be an aesthetic experience. You lose yourself, but it's not about the quick dopamine reward system.

Whereas TikTok and that short form, it's able to optimize for whatever... whatever gives you that little bit of dopamine in your reinforcement pathways. And because there's a behavior response loop, which you didn't have with television, with television, you could raise the volume, lower the volume, or change the channel. That's it. Those were your options.

Whereas TikTok and that short form, it's able to optimize for whatever... whatever gives you that little bit of dopamine in your reinforcement pathways. And because there's a behavior response loop, which you didn't have with television, with television, you could raise the volume, lower the volume, or change the channel. That's it. Those were your options.

There was not like a feedback loop where the television is rewarding you for certain actions. Whereas what TikTok pioneered is we don't care who you know. We only care what makes you pause, what makes you click, what makes you react. So TikTok is basically, if BF Skinner could come back to life, you know, one of the founders of behaviorism, and observe TikTok, he'd say, this is brilliant.

There was not like a feedback loop where the television is rewarding you for certain actions. Whereas what TikTok pioneered is we don't care who you know. We only care what makes you pause, what makes you click, what makes you react. So TikTok is basically, if BF Skinner could come back to life, you know, one of the founders of behaviorism, and observe TikTok, he'd say, this is brilliant.

This is so brilliant.

This is so brilliant.

Yeah, exactly. Variable rewards. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Variable rewards. Yeah.

So we have to go back before humans because the brains change very slowly. And whatever was built in by the time you get to mammals and primates is the basic architecture of our minds. So we have a reinforcement system which has worked really, really well for other animals. And it is, when certain things happen,

So we have to go back before humans because the brains change very slowly. And whatever was built in by the time you get to mammals and primates is the basic architecture of our minds. So we have a reinforcement system which has worked really, really well for other animals. And it is, when certain things happen,

when there are signals that this is advancing your evolutionary project, which is survive, eat, have sex, leave offspring. So if something happens, you're making progress towards, say, finding a mate. you get a reward and it feels good. And that doesn't make you say, oh, I got my reward, I'm done.

when there are signals that this is advancing your evolutionary project, which is survive, eat, have sex, leave offspring. So if something happens, you're making progress towards, say, finding a mate. you get a reward and it feels good. And that doesn't make you say, oh, I got my reward, I'm done.

The way dopamine works is the neurons, I think it's in the nucleus accumbens is one of the main reward areas. Those circuits that use dopamine, the dopamine says, oh, that was good, keep going, get more. And that's why potato chips are the way they are, because you don't eat one and say, oh, that was good. You eat one and say, now I want one more than I wanted the first one.

The way dopamine works is the neurons, I think it's in the nucleus accumbens is one of the main reward areas. Those circuits that use dopamine, the dopamine says, oh, that was good, keep going, get more. And that's why potato chips are the way they are, because you don't eat one and say, oh, that was good. You eat one and say, now I want one more than I wanted the first one.

So this worked really well for other animals. And by the time you get to humans, that's what we're stuck with is this, it's very much based on a few kind of, a few sort of imperatives. But another thing which is a little more uniquely human is the need for reputation. And so chimpanzees do have a whole lot going on about status. I mean, so these systems go back before humans.

So this worked really well for other animals. And by the time you get to humans, that's what we're stuck with is this, it's very much based on a few kind of, a few sort of imperatives. But another thing which is a little more uniquely human is the need for reputation. And so chimpanzees do have a whole lot going on about status. I mean, so these systems go back before humans.