Jonathan Rottenberg

know me, despite the fact that we had the most intimate conversations for like 18 months.

And so when I finally did recover, I thought about Dr. McGinnis, and he had become a pretty eminent research psychologist at the University of Michigan.

And I just wondered, what would it be like if I reached out to him?

Like, would he remember me?

Yeah.

Would he be surprised that I had not only gotten out of the depression, but that I was now in the field?

And not only I was in the field, I was studying depression, and I was a faculty member like he was.

And so I wrote him with really very little expectation.

I really wanted to say that I knew that he had done his best.

He is a very kind man.

in that it was just a really...

difficult depression that really I don't know if anyone could have done better than than he did and just see just see what he said and he not only did he write me back he wanted to talk with me and we continued to be in contact and I've seen him in person and to me this was very gratifying because he is someone who knew me as the depressed John and

but also as the person who's on the other side of depression.

And he's one of the few people who really knows all of those parts intimately.

And he also is someone who really understands depression.

So I think in addition to it being very gratifying for me, I think it was also gratifying for him to see that his patient finally was able to get out of it and turn his life into something that is an asset to the world.

Thank you for having me.

It was such a pleasure.