Jonathan Swan

Putin has built an economy based on wartime. You know, Russia is one of the most sanctioned countries on earth. And when you have leaders like Putin and Xi Jinping, who are dictators, who are not as responsive to public opinion or any of the institutional pressures that a president leading a liberal democracy would be,

Putin has built an economy based on wartime. You know, Russia is one of the most sanctioned countries on earth. And when you have leaders like Putin and Xi Jinping, who are dictators, who are not as responsive to public opinion or any of the institutional pressures that a president leading a liberal democracy would be,

there's a lot of pain that they can endure and put their populations through in order to achieve something that they portray as a great outcome. So I think in those two cases, it's a misunderstanding of leverage. More broadly, I think it's fascinating what's happening with foreign policy right now, because really what's happening in Europe...

there's a lot of pain that they can endure and put their populations through in order to achieve something that they portray as a great outcome. So I think in those two cases, it's a misunderstanding of leverage. More broadly, I think it's fascinating what's happening with foreign policy right now, because really what's happening in Europe...

in Asia as well, they are already operating on the basis that they can't rely on America. That this security construct that has existed since the end of World War II and that this world order that America built and this rules-based order, that that no longer exists.

in Asia as well, they are already operating on the basis that they can't rely on America. That this security construct that has existed since the end of World War II and that this world order that America built and this rules-based order, that that no longer exists.

And not my line, but somebody writing in the Financial Times said, you know, he is so obsessed with the problem of free riders that he forgets that it has been in America's interest to drive the bus. So regardless of whether you think what Donald Trump is doing is smart, prudent, foolish, whatever, there are going to be real costs to America not having that position of trust and centrality.

And not my line, but somebody writing in the Financial Times said, you know, he is so obsessed with the problem of free riders that he forgets that it has been in America's interest to drive the bus. So regardless of whether you think what Donald Trump is doing is smart, prudent, foolish, whatever, there are going to be real costs to America not having that position of trust and centrality.

I think until Congress changes hands, you're going to see what Maggie just laid out, with the one exception being they are absolutely second guessing their trade war and their tariff policy. But in every other aspect, it's not like there's somebody in there saying, Mr. President, you need to stop doing X, Y, and Z. That doesn't exist.

I think until Congress changes hands, you're going to see what Maggie just laid out, with the one exception being they are absolutely second guessing their trade war and their tariff policy. But in every other aspect, it's not like there's somebody in there saying, Mr. President, you need to stop doing X, Y, and Z. That doesn't exist.

And I thought it was a really good conversation, actually, between our colleagues, Ezra Klein and Ross Douthat. They got at something that Maggie and I talk about all the time, which is that

And I thought it was a really good conversation, actually, between our colleagues, Ezra Klein and Ross Douthat. They got at something that Maggie and I talk about all the time, which is that

For people who are working for him, particularly people who've been with him for the last four years, and they've watched this person be the pariah after January 6th, indicted in four different jurisdictions, criminally convicted, literally shot like an inch from dying. Right. And then he wins the presidency and comes back to the Oval Office.

For people who are working for him, particularly people who've been with him for the last four years, and they've watched this person be the pariah after January 6th, indicted in four different jurisdictions, criminally convicted, literally shot like an inch from dying. Right. And then he wins the presidency and comes back to the Oval Office.

There is a mystical... There's a kind of mystical quality was what our colleagues said. Yeah, that is the word they used. And it's like, this guy must know something that we don't know. And so it's a different element when you have things that in the first term, when Trump was like, let's tariff the world, Gary Cohn or Steve Mnuchin would be like, no, that's insane. Let's not tariff the world.

There is a mystical... There's a kind of mystical quality was what our colleagues said. Yeah, that is the word they used. And it's like, this guy must know something that we don't know. And so it's a different element when you have things that in the first term, when Trump was like, let's tariff the world, Gary Cohn or Steve Mnuchin would be like, no, that's insane. Let's not tariff the world.

You don't have those conversations anymore. You have an argument within narrower margins. Should we give this exemption? Should we give that exemption? So There is a deference to his instincts that is genuine and powerful and not just a bunch of toady sycophants who are submerging their own views to serve Orange God. It's actually something much deeper than that.

You don't have those conversations anymore. You have an argument within narrower margins. Should we give this exemption? Should we give that exemption? So There is a deference to his instincts that is genuine and powerful and not just a bunch of toady sycophants who are submerging their own views to serve Orange God. It's actually something much deeper than that.

Thanks so much. Thank you.

Thanks so much. Thank you.