Josh van Cuylenburg

Correct.

But then I guess there are also cases where people, well, quite common where women do fall into, and men too, but we're talking about matricence.

So postnatal depression, postnatal anxiety, postnatal psychosis.

How do you know, well, how do you do the work of understanding the difference or is it not so much difference that they're sort of connected but how do you, I guess, untwine a lot of this stuff?

Yeah, this is something just, alarm bell just rang, not alarm bell, but just like a light bulb went off because a friend of mine, she lost her mum to suicide before having children.

Yeah.

And she felt that she had grieved and processed that as much as she needed to.

And then when she had her child, it completely changed

Like the depression she fell into completely came out of nowhere for her and she wasn't ready for it.

And I think had an extremely difficult six months and was worse than she ever was during the grieving process of her mum.

And I think she would be blown away to hear of this concept of matrescence and what's happening.

And it would explain so much as to why it was so different and so heavy and so dark during that time when she thought I had this.

I thought I dealt with this.

And it also feels like it's a different brain now.

Totally.

Looking at the same stuff.

It doesn't have any good friends.

Yeah.

Yeah, but I don't need all its friends.

And so autism or ADHD or any kind of neurodivergence can often reveal itself at that moment.