Josh van Cuylenburg

Yeah, yeah, it's a whole other tangent that I've heard amazing stuff about.

Annabel Crabb wrote an amazing piece in The Quarterly where she talked about how to get men more involved in parenting, like you need to give more parental leave to men because often women will be doing it so much.

And also what you've talked about a lot with matricence today makes total sense to me that with –

all these different changes in the brain where women are so much more acutely aware of what the child needs and then the man goes back to work and isn't there to see it and then you tell women you need to be better at letting men do the parenting but they're like, but they haven't been there to do any of it and they don't know, they don't see the signals, they don't know the signs, it's set up for failure.

Absolutely.

To fail.

Um, I, uh, a bit of a little bit of a jump, but I feel like I want to acknowledge what you said before about the, that it does happen to men.

Yeah.

There is an earthquake.

Cause I definitely felt I've definitely become a different person.

I think you guys, everyone in my life would notice that about me, but one of the things that I found, and I think I've often put it down to like a lot of work that I did with a psychologist for a long time.

And I've, I've, I have mentioned this before, but like,

So after the sort of glow of having a child faded after a few weeks, that initial kind of like euphoria.

Okay.

After that, I would love more of that.

Goals.

I found some familiar patterns of thinking, negative thinking, kicking in.

And I was able to almost say to myself, I'm not going to listen to that like I used to.

I'm going to make a choice here not to listen to that.

And