Josh Weisberg

And then we had developers who were just looking to set up transactional messages.

And when we figured out, okay, what is the mix of people who can actually use this product and use it consistently, then we at least cut it in half, probably more than that.

I think, yeah, by the time we dialed it in, we were probably a bit better than that.

That's right.

And I think one of the things we realized is if we give people a couple of really valuable use

time.

If the product's good enough and you can see, hey, I can send emails, I can send push notifications and every message that goes inside outbound, I'm going to be able to evaluate what people do because of that message.

That was a strong enough pull factor that it's like, well, we're sending some other messages in SendGrid.

Let's put them in outbound.

We're sending some other messages, you know, with our in-house push provider.

Let's put those in outbound.

And so we were relying on that kind of pull rather than pushing a strong sales process.

And I think we'll continue to do that.

You know, I think that was something we always were looking at and were observing.

So what is our payback period?

You know, kind of how long does it take us to get the cash back in the door?

I guess that's what you mean.

But because we spent no money on marketing.

So what we did is we built this tribe of 10 initial customers who really, really loved the product.

And then we didn't spend money on marketing.