Josh Williams

The Australians have one.

We don't.

We used to run a campaign called Got a Trade, Got it Made that was pretty effective.

There's been research to show, for example, that the net financial position of an apprentice is about the same as a bachelor's graduate once you get to the age of 65.

And actually that through the middle part of your career, you've less debt, you've had money earlier, the ability to raise that family, put the deposit on the house, those kinds of things.

But you're right.

I mean, at the end of the day, at the moment at the barbecue, the best thing that the parent wants to say is my kid's going to uni.

And my point would be, A, they're probably going to work while they're at uni and B, what happens after uni?

And I think that's a message to secondary education, too, because getting university entrance can't be the only goal of 13 years of school.

We have to prepare our young people for a wider range of opportunities and in particular that exposure and experience, which means they'll be able to make that successful step and find their pathway.

I'm afraid to say, I mean, I've spoken at a few of the careers advisors' conferences and they often feel they're pushed off to the side of the school.

They're in a prefab.

buy the cricket nets, they've got brochures, and kids get sent to them when the main game of getting university entrance is coming unstuck.

And, oh, have you got a gateway place?

Can you find something for them?

And this is, I think, where that parity of esteem problem really starts, right?

Because it's seen as an alternative in a pejorative sense, and it really shouldn't be.

No, no, I think we saw that play out.

I didn't enjoy it at all.

I was actually quite concerned when I left the ground as well.