Julianne Schultz

A lot has changed in the last decade.

More will change in the coming period.

And the enormity of that is something that we need to be paying attention to beyond the sort of simple things about, you know, apparently simple things like privacy and, you know, attention and so on.

Now, they're hard concepts.

They're big ideas.

We don't know where it's going to go.

And I think that's the contribution that Zuboff's book makes, is it makes it accessible and makes us stop and think, it's not just about my Facebook feed, it's actually about something which is quite fundamental in the way the whole global economy is being organised and reorganised as we speak.

I'm always hopeful.

I'm perennially hopeful.

Look, I am, but I don't think it's going to be easy.

I mean, I think that in many ways what we've seen over the last little while, and I guess the Cambridge Analytica stuff has been a crystallising of it, and the Christchurch situation itself,

you know, brought to public attention as well.

I think that it is being recognised as something that is profoundly important.

I don't think there are simple answers, but I do think that what happens in these situations is if we focus, you know, we acknowledge that there is an issue, that's where a solution is going or solutions are going to emerge.

I mean, one of the things that's interesting when you think about it in terms of the, you know, books and writing and the sort of cultural space is

that the tech companies as we now think of them, you know, the Googles, Facebooks and so on, are not tech companies in the way that we used to think of tech companies.

You know, they're not selling... Well, they do now sell devices, but they're not principally involved in the sale of devices.

But what it was in much of their business model was an appropriation of the cultural into the technological.

You know, so the cultural product of identity, of belief, of who we are, of the stories we tell each other, became the product...

that was sold by those corporations.