Julien Baker

Yeah?

Well, we wanted to do the classic nudie suit thing. Got Union Western to make us these.

Got a little Tennessee flora and fauna.

You might have.

No, you're not overthinking it.

Absolutely not. I think Mackenzie and I know a little bit about that firsthand. We were both raised in a religious household and social context and culture. But yeah, I know Mackenzie and I were talking before this and not to diminish our spirituality is important.

You know, I think there's this idea that you talk about a practice of prayer, you're talking about a dogmatic religious belief, but I feel like organized religion is not necessarily the same thing, maybe often gets in the way of pursuit of the divine. You know, I think that's something everybody, every human intuitively yearns for.

I think definitely, you know, as musicians, as people seeking like just justice and fair treatment for ourselves and for you know, the world and being outraged at everything that's happening around us. I think that's a really normal reaction is to idealize like a more utopian or divine destination.

He could have been my dog.

Yeah.

No, it's the same. It's funny. I love dogs because their relationship is, you know, it's extralingual. They there's nothing you can say really to a dog to manipulate them or to reframe a situation. Either you're showing up for them. You put food in the bowl. You take them out or you don't. But weirdly, there's this like capacity for grace that extends. I feel like a human relationship or.

you know, surpasses a human relationship. I got beans when I was going through kind of, like, a tough time in my life, and I was thinking, you know, man, I don't have my shit together enough to have a dog. And the dog made me get my shit together, you know, because now there's something else. I have to take care of her when she's just sitting looking at me with the sweetest, most innocent eyes.

I'm like, OK, yeah.

Yeah, he sensed it. Sensed my love.

You sent me an email. The subject line was pastiche. Yeah.