Justin Jackson

Not trying to lump you in with the scene that like you agree with everything he says. Don't want to get you canceled. But the idea that there's this whole wave of like dev tools companies that are like trying to simplify in a way that just like people aren't learning things they should probably learn anymore or new engineers that are coming into the field.

It's kind of like trying to shield them from something that would be valuable lessons to learn. Do you agree with all that?

Yeah, if I think about our early career, there could have been the generation before us looking at us writing our Java and our C Sharp and whatever and being like, this generation hadn't even learned assembly or they're not even writing stuff in C anymore. And I've gone my whole career and hadn't had to do either of those things.

So it's possible that this whole wave coming in now will never have to know how to manage a server or manage lower level stuff like, I don't know, Nginx and whatever else. Yeah.

I mean, like Vercel for me is like, it's like CICD, which just feels like a commodity at this point. I mean, like people are, that was the initial big thing. It's like, I can just push to GitHub and not think about it. It's like, yeah, you can do that with like 15 services now. Or like even the underlying stuff, it's getting easier and easier to do that with. Do you agree with that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that the nature of like diminishing returns or something with progress and technology? No, technology historically just goes up real big. It's like a curve that keeps getting more impressive, right?

Like, I'm going to make a hosted Postgres service. It's going to be amazing.

that just gets way too much money poured into it. Yeah. And we're still... We're going to watch the unraveling of that in DevTools for a while, right?

So are there examples like I feel like you see so many examples on the wrong side of this where they're not taking big bets? Are there examples that you admire that did take big bets, like that are active startups that you feel like actually chose the right size kind of thing? Yeah.

Yeah.

We are quite boring. Yeah, I'm quite bored. I'm bored with much of the discourse. And it's helped me kind of get off of Twitter and not be that active right now.

i which i i get like there's a lot of other benefits twitter just the memes and the hanging out or whatever i am there's the fantasy football league i mean that's on twitter so i'm excited for that we're drafting tomorrow actually i think uh turns out turk listens to our podcast and he thinks i am cheating because i talked about my secret weapon last time uh so if you're still listening turk

I love you. That's all. I just like you. You're the best. Thanks for running the league.

Okay. Uh, I feel like I've seen more like mega viral tweets lately. Like, I don't know if they're just showing up in my feed more, but like numbers that I don't remember seeing like a year ago on a single tweet. And it feels like it's happened within our little like corner of Twitter. You know what I mean?

Like people we know, I know I've seen Theo has had at least one or two really giant had one recently.

Yeah. Yeah. I think I saw that.

Oh, that's crazy. I can't imagine what you're like... I guess you don't get notifications at that point.

Oh, has it never changed? I hadn't checked back in. Has it never changed since the first time they put it up there?

Don't they say that about TikTok? Like that TikTok has that going for it?

Yeah. Is it scary to you? Like, is there like a China thing that's scary or something? I don't know.