Kate Shaw

speaker

3,267 appearances 14 recordings 4 series first heard Dec 2024 last heard 15 Sep

Kate Shaw’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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recordings per month · last 12 months

Recordings per month over the last 12 months — 11 in all, peaking in Sep 2026 with 4.

Appearances

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Strict Scrutiny · All the President’s Henchmen · 17 Aug 2026 podcast

Yeah. voice-verified

And in terms of the kind of weighing these competing imperatives against each other, you have this really useful concept in the book that you call a moral collision, right? voice-verified

So you note that the people, many of the people that you're talking to, do find themselves in these positions of of weighing powerful competing kind of fears and desires, right? voice-verified

So like there are fears. voice-verified

Of like losing a job, money, status, physical safety, freedom, things like that. voice-verified

Um, and then there is another fear, which is often a deeper fear, that is the fear of quote, living a life that doesn't feel honest or dignified or maybe abandoning core values. voice-verified

Um, and you write, quote, this moral collision is where dissident life often begins with a small feeling and then a big choice. voice-verified

I guess I want to ask a bunch of specific questions, but I guess a general question now. voice-verified

Julia, what do you take from all of these conversations about kind of what voice-verified

causes that second fear of of you know betraying values, being someone you don't want to be to finally outweigh those kind of more parochial fears in the first category. voice-verified

And and can people learn or train themselves to recognize these kinds of moral collisions and act on them? voice-verified

In ways that align with deep values before like rationalizing their way around or out of it. voice-verified

Yeah, that Osodabe story is great. voice-verified

And there are just like so many in the book that are all unique in their own way. voice-verified

But there are voice-verified

I think one of the really striking things about the book is that there are these remarkable kind of like common themes and lessons and that comes through in the book and you make that point explicitly. voice-verified

So you observe that quote, I'm gonna quote from the book a lot because it's so good. voice-verified

Um so you say, quote, uh these people seem to be relying on a shared set of principles, practices and tools in order to live out their values. voice-verified

We were reminded of a phenomenon in the history of science in which researchers across the world have often arrived at the same discovery independent of one another. voice-verified

Something comparable can be said of the dissident experience. voice-verified

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