Kathryn Jones Lish

And you're going to be able to skip the line. But if you don't, I mean, I'm telling you what, you pitch a bad product. I mean, it dies fast because it's all in reputation, right? Anyway, so I love that.

Which is rude, Russell. No.

Which is rude, Russell. No.

Which is rude, Russell. No.

Well, and I think there, like, truly is a strategy behind that, too. Like, when I spoke at Funnel Again, I kind of revealed, I call it the collaboration ladder, right? So it models your value ladder. But ultimately, like, the more audience exposure that you want from somebody, the more value you need to provide, right? So, like...

Well, and I think there, like, truly is a strategy behind that, too. Like, when I spoke at Funnel Again, I kind of revealed, I call it the collaboration ladder, right? So it models your value ladder. But ultimately, like, the more audience exposure that you want from somebody, the more value you need to provide, right? So, like...

Well, and I think there, like, truly is a strategy behind that, too. Like, when I spoke at Funnel Again, I kind of revealed, I call it the collaboration ladder, right? So it models your value ladder. But ultimately, like, the more audience exposure that you want from somebody, the more value you need to provide, right? So, like...

And so often, so there's, but there's other collaborations that you can do, right? You can speak on each other's stages. You can do a virtual event. You can do a masterclass. You can be on their podcast. They can be on your podcast, right? And what's so crazy is that oftentimes people are like, well, if I can't do a joint venture, then I don't want a relationship with them at all.

And so often, so there's, but there's other collaborations that you can do, right? You can speak on each other's stages. You can do a virtual event. You can do a masterclass. You can be on their podcast. They can be on your podcast, right? And what's so crazy is that oftentimes people are like, well, if I can't do a joint venture, then I don't want a relationship with them at all.

And so often, so there's, but there's other collaborations that you can do, right? You can speak on each other's stages. You can do a virtual event. You can do a masterclass. You can be on their podcast. They can be on your podcast, right? And what's so crazy is that oftentimes people are like, well, if I can't do a joint venture, then I don't want a relationship with them at all.

When in reality, like you can leverage, you can get sales and you can get status and you can get impact in time, even if you don't directly pitch, right? Like I did that mastermind with Lauren Golden, the very first thing, and I made 10 sales and I didn't even pitch, but I was able to provide value. And so people were able to come back.

When in reality, like you can leverage, you can get sales and you can get status and you can get impact in time, even if you don't directly pitch, right? Like I did that mastermind with Lauren Golden, the very first thing, and I made 10 sales and I didn't even pitch, but I was able to provide value. And so people were able to come back.

When in reality, like you can leverage, you can get sales and you can get status and you can get impact in time, even if you don't directly pitch, right? Like I did that mastermind with Lauren Golden, the very first thing, and I made 10 sales and I didn't even pitch, but I was able to provide value. And so people were able to come back.

And the thing that's most amazing is like, if you can get what I call on somebody's collaboration ladder, like, like if you can do a collaboration with them, even if it's them on your show, you're not even on their show, then all of a sudden you have a relationship with them. And what have you done? You've gotten their attention. And because you've gotten their attention, what can you then do?

And the thing that's most amazing is like, if you can get what I call on somebody's collaboration ladder, like, like if you can do a collaboration with them, even if it's them on your show, you're not even on their show, then all of a sudden you have a relationship with them. And what have you done? You've gotten their attention. And because you've gotten their attention, what can you then do?

And the thing that's most amazing is like, if you can get what I call on somebody's collaboration ladder, like, like if you can do a collaboration with them, even if it's them on your show, you're not even on their show, then all of a sudden you have a relationship with them. And what have you done? You've gotten their attention. And because you've gotten their attention, what can you then do?

You can present to them other opportunities. And so you can either, you can just slowly climb the value ladder you can do, but like, And the thing that's amazing is, like, you ended up – I asked for a joint venture, and you didn't say joint venture. You said, hey, why don't you come speak at Funnel Hacking Live? I said, great. And since then, we've done, like, a ton of master classes together.

You can present to them other opportunities. And so you can either, you can just slowly climb the value ladder you can do, but like, And the thing that's amazing is, like, you ended up – I asked for a joint venture, and you didn't say joint venture. You said, hey, why don't you come speak at Funnel Hacking Live? I said, great. And since then, we've done, like, a ton of master classes together.

You can present to them other opportunities. And so you can either, you can just slowly climb the value ladder you can do, but like, And the thing that's amazing is, like, you ended up – I asked for a joint venture, and you didn't say joint venture. You said, hey, why don't you come speak at Funnel Hacking Live? I said, great. And since then, we've done, like, a ton of master classes together.

I've been in your virtual events. I've spoken at your in-person event multiple times. You've been on my show. We're now doing this together. And, again, I think that oftentimes we also only see, like, this game of Dream 100 or joint ventures as, like, it's 100% or zero. Right. When in reality, what we're trying to do, again, is leverage somebody's audience.