Keith Payne
speaker
387 appearances
1 recordings
1 series
first heard Nov 2024
last heard Nov 2024
Keith Payne’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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I think that's so accurate. And I observe it in others. And I'm probably approaching that point where it's like there are people that we have liked in the past that are expressively liberal, but everything they're saying is not. They're not going to give up that identity marker, despite the fact that all of their opinions really are now conservative. And I'm comfortable saying I'm a centrist now.
My hunch is we're both getting hijacked by a identity. That's like my deepest real feeling is that I think people on the right are getting hijacked by it. And I think people on the left are getting hijacked by it. You look at these weird polls, like I said, 70 plus percent didn't agree with Roe v. Wade. So that's interesting. Why are we all acting like we're enemies when 70% of us agree on that?
Okay, let's get into solutions. The book is fantastic. People should read the book. You really get into rural versus urban country people. Will you tell us water witching really quick before we get into solutions? I want to get into solutions.
It's magic.
Yeah, I mean, I grew up shooting guns. This is another one, by the way. This is one of these polls that doesn't map like reproductive rights. Yeah. The vast majority of Americans are in favor of the Second Amendment.
Okay, so winging it together is the last chapter. This is kind of a sweet way to think about this. Tell us about winging it together.
And you're trying to be good, actually.
Yeah, and also I'll be stealing Jelani Cobb. Do you know who Jelani Cobb is? He's a Columbia professor. I heard him speak this weekend and he told this incredible story. So this is his. I think what can happen when you start there is this example. Jelani is a Brooklynite. He hates the Red Sox, was flying to LA to see the Dodgers play the Red Sox.
And obviously he's going there with the hopes that the Dodgers will destroy the Red Sox. And he's sitting next to a guy on the plane. And that guy is also a New Yorker flying to L.A. to see this game. And he assumes that he's hoping that the Red Sox will get slashed. And the guy says, I'm hoping the Red Sox win. And he's immediately can't compute why this New Yorker would be doing that.
What a betrayal of being a New Yorker. What kind of guy is this guy? Was he secretly always a Red Sox fan? And he continues to talk to the guy and he discovers that in this guy's rationale, the Yankees had lost to the Red Sox to go play the Dodgers. So if the Dodgers beat the Red Sox, it means the Yankees were the third best team.
But if the Red Sox smashed the Dodgers, the Yankees are probably the second best team. And John, he's like, that makes a ton of sense. I'm not going to be rooting for the Red Sox in this contest. But wow, wouldn't have even thought of this bizarre way you could come to this. And it's pretty defendable. Right.
It's not going to be my opinion, but it changes the person to a maniac who's rooting for the Red Sox when he's a New Yorker into, no, it's in a weird way or a different way than his still supporting the Yankees somehow. And I think so many of our divides are that way. We're assuming the kind of worst case scenario of why they've come to this opinion.
They have hate in their heart or they have all these different things. And you might minimally learn that there's a different cause for this thing. And you can still... You can still vote the way you want to vote and have all your core beliefs.
Yeah.
Yeah, they want to give you the factual proof of why this opinion is the only opinion that one could have if they were rational and sane. Not at all what impact it has on their own identity or their sense of why it's a good thing.
Yeah. I'm so delighted you wrote this book. It's something I think about all the time, and it's very disheartening where we're at. And I hope that this book can help people, again, not all come up with the same conclusion or opinion, but not have to scream, shout, punch, kick, shoot at. You know, I don't think that those are the ways forward.
So I hope everyone reads Good, Reasonable People, The Psychology Behind America's Dangerous Divide. Keith, you've done it two for two. Great book. Keep going. Oh, thanks. Well, great meeting you. Thanks for coming. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. We hope you enjoyed this episode.
I know, but before we talk about Halloween, which I can't wait to do.
Favorite night of the year.
You haven't commented on my new hat.
Showing 121–140 of 387 · page 7 of 20
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