Ken Hinkley

Yes, yes.

So stability, I heard Ken Hinckley say today that culture is about having great people turn up every day and do their best, and that's a pretty good description.

The board doesn't necessarily set the culture.

The board sets the tone of the club.

And that's very hard to define.

What was the tone in those Richmond years?

And I think if we had to write it down, we would have said stability, resilience, stability

one of the big clubs, but a battling club that was trying to drag itself out of decades of mediocrity.

So that's the sort of tone that you're trying to set.

Eddie Maguire said it very well with Collingwood at one stage where it was sort of Collingwood against the rest.

Everyone hates Collingwood.

He was trying to set that tone there and he did it very well.

The culture comes out further down in the club.

I think the coach, the chief executive and the coach set the culture of the playing group in the administration, that sort of, that part of it.

And it's very, very hard to define.

It's one of those things that...

When you see it, you recognise it, but it's very hard if it's not there to say what's missing.

So lots of people contribute to that.

There are lots of parts to it.

It's hard to evaluate the performance of a sports board from the outside.