Chapter 1: What is the main topic discussed in this episode?
It's Stuart Waitley. Thanks for listening to the podcast.
Chapter 2: What insights does Ken Hinkley share about coaching?
In this episode, the art of coaching with Ken Hinckley, the eminently sensible Phil Davis, the godfather of sports administration Malcolm Speed, and the man leading the President's Cup here in Melbourne, Joe Tomek. You can get in touch at any time. Waitley at sen.com.au. Thanks for listening. Enjoy. Wednesday morning. This is your town. This is your station. This is Waitley. Good morning.
The metaphor of the lifting fog. There it was on the drive in before first light. And now the dawning of the new day at Carlton. The exiting is done. The explanations have been offered and judgments have been cast. A notable addition in the events of yesterday was the departure of the list manager. Tacit acknowledgement the failings of this era haven't been restricted to the coaching.
The Carlton list is not built for imminent success and only the first steps of transformation have been taken. The hunt for picks has been declared. What the next iteration of Carlton looks like is very much uncertain. And how long it takes to be ready to challenge consistently is a timeframe I suspect few of a navy blue persuasion will want to contemplate right now.
This is a day the Blues have faced numerous times in the past quarter of a century. The invigorating task of searching for that new dawn. Criteria drawn up for the essential qualities required in a new coach, accompanied by a list of the best credentialed. And Carlton has tried them all. The messiah, the succession plan, the favourite son, the brightest assistant, the caretaker and the recycled.
All have failed. So either previous administrations and their advisers have hired the wrong guy every time, or there's something rotten in the state of royal parades. It's in the walls. It's the cultural piece Carlton has to solve, or the next man in will suffer the same fate as the previous seven, chewed up and spat out.
Is the promise of Carlton the selling point, or is the reality of Carlton the cautionary tale? It was on shaky ground and the inevitable was starting to become clearer. But the fighter in you and the competitor in you wants to, you know, take that as far as you possibly can. But no, look, I think during the week, last week was the first time I just sort of sat with a result the week before and
thought about where the group was at where the club currently was and maybe where they needed to go and just you know when you know thinking about that more deeply and reflecting on that i felt like it was time to elevate those conversations we had a project that was sizable the change in in player personnel the change in the coaches was significant
So being able to sort of bind that together and get that connecting really fast and getting some level of cohesion and doing it under the most extreme of pressure was maybe just too big a task to be able to handle. It doesn't mean that won't be solved in the coming weeks. It doesn't mean it won't be solved in the coming months. But that's the point of this.
Give it the space, let it happen, and see where the next iteration of this team can go. Michael Voss with Damien Barrett on AFL Media last night. The next iteration of Carlton comes into sharp view now. The eminently sensible Phil Davis and the art of coaching with Ken Hinckley are our Wednesday staples and it is fertile ground in which to work today. The Open line is 1-300-736-736.
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Chapter 3: How does Phil Davis evaluate Carlton's current situation?
Do they feel like they're valued? Is it enjoyable? Is it a high energy place? Do we help each other get better each day? They're all the cultural things to me that matter. So that's what I think about when I think about culture. I think people that comment on culture, they just see one little issue and try and turn it into a big thing. I mean, at a football club, you're just like a family.
And from time to time, some of the members of your family can... go off the rails a little bit and they need a little bit of help. And that's part of a good culture too, that when that happens, you help them out.
If you were at our club every day and you came to work there, you'd find it a very enjoyable place to be and a place where you can feel psychologically safe and really clear about what we're trying to achieve every day. So I'm happy with our culture as it is at the moment.
Chris Fagan putting some parameters around that intangible idea of culture and Psychologically Safe was an interesting one to drop at the end of that. That was Monday on 360.
So unrelated and yet absolutely timely because Ken Hinkley, part of this, and I know that this is part of the Graham Wright, Rob Priestley remit, is to change the long-term culture at Carlton, which is such a big task to undertake but necessary.
Yeah, it certainly is. I mean, the long-term culture change. So when you listen to what Faye spoke about, though, there's a lot around, is it a happy place? You know, is it an enjoyable place? Do you feel valued when you go to the environment? And, you know, at Carlton...
Unless the scoreboard's ticking, it seems to be a really challenging place to remain happy in and to be satisfied in some ways and to watch your people grow. It's got a few challenges inside Carlton because it's never been able to quite rectify what that is. So that's a big, big challenge for Graeme and for Rob to go into work. But it's an achievable challenge.
But with that achievable challenge, you've got to be able to set course and And you've got to be able to continuously improve, Gerard. This is the challenge because Faggs went in and set course, rebuilt and said, okay, we're going to get better from here. And his list build and his performance build mirrored each other.
He went from a slow start, not very many wins, to a few more wins, to all of a sudden starting to get competitive. And then they became really competitive and they've stayed there since. Since 2020 or 2019, they would have won the most games of football in the competition. So that's when you can maintain this healthy, enjoyable growth mindset as a football culture.
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Chapter 4: What cultural challenges does Carlton face?
Hello, Sophie. G'day, Gerard. How are you? I'm well, thank you.
I just am trying to work out the logic around the criticism of sacking Voss at this point in time, because like I get that Carlton have had this rat sheet of sacked coaches, but he did have five seasons. So I'm hoping that this recent decision, like I think arguably he could have been asked to move on last year, but they didn't. And I'm hoping that perhaps
we're seeing a change in that trend of sort of lurching to sacking him, sacking the coach, and slightly more patience than what has been the pattern in recent times.
The problem with what they did at the end of last year, Sophie, is that in hindsight, it looks like inaction because they didn't believe in him. They didn't set him up to be successful. They deliberately undermined him with the ham-fisted attempt to recruit Craig McRae.
They took every opportunity bewilderingly at the start of this season to say this team was in contention to play finals when they well knew that they weren't. And they took the long-term strategy on their list to get worse now while the coach entered the year of judgment. And it lasted nine games. So whether that represents stability or inaction is in the eye of the beholder.
But if you don't believe in your guy and you don't set him up for success, I'm not sure that actually represents having faith. Um, so I'm, the more I see of these over the years is you cannot undermine your coach. You can't put him on quicksand. And as soon as you don't believe in him, you have to move and then, and then be damned one way or the other is that this was doomed from the start.
Uh, and it it's only lasted nine rounds. They're going to spend 14 weeks in caretaker mode. And that is the very definition of a wasted season to me. Sophie, thank you. Jackson Coburg. Hello, Jack.
Hi, Gerard. I just want to change the conversation a little bit. I'm a Carlton supporter, but no one's really talking carefully about Michael Voss's, his assistant coaches. Now, when they pick a new coach, do you believe that this new coach has to clean house here and why all the assistant coaches out there that are there at the moment are
and send a new message to the, to the players. Like, are they picking the best assistant coaches in the competition?
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Chapter 5: How does the recent coaching change impact Carlton's future?
So one of them, so round nine was the end point for Leon Cameron. Round nine ended up being the end point for Michael Voss. I've always thought there have been echoes in the previous to the current. Can you see any other similarities? Well, I think so. They're always at times. I think both have been put under pressure from expectations.
I think Vossi took them to a prelim in 2023, which was not that long ago. And I would argue that the list didn't develop with the modern game. And maybe his game plan didn't evolve as fast as it needed to as well. I think Leon was similar.
Don't think our list was exactly constructed for the modern game in 2022 when he got moved on, but also he probably didn't move with the game plan as fast as he should. But yeah, Both had had recent success and you just didn't move at the pace that was required and you move on. And I think if I was Carlton, you can take hope from what Kingsley has been able to do at the Giants.
But I think Carlton have got a lot of work to do. I think they've got a lot of things that we've touched on multiple times that they've got to get right. But at the end of the day, they're Carlton, Gerrard. They'll never want for people that are keen to join that football club. I thought that was part of yesterday. Is Carlton the selling point or is Carlton the cautionary tale?
Depends what your inner belief is as a senior coach. I don't think it's a lay down. You walk in and you don't ask any questions and you ask for the job. I think if you're a good candidate, you would do a considerable amount of homework about the ecosystem that you're walking in and ask yourself, what are my strengths? What can I control? What am I willing not to control?
And then can I do the job? That's probably how I would frame it. As I've said to you before, there's a big part of me that thinks it'd be amazing to be, whether it be Graham Wright, or the next senior coach or Rob Priestley that's able to get Carlton back up and going. And I think we want sustained success. The flash in the pan that was the prelim was very exciting.
We all love the Blues brothers traveling around and all these great things, but we'd like some sustained success from Carlton because the competition's better when it's going well. So the coach would want to be very clear about What is the list of uncontrollables? And can I live with that? And once you get past that, you might be able to make a decision.
So the coach will be a central figure, but there's 25 years of evidence to say that the coach is just not the problem. Carlton is living the same loop over and over. And they've tried every style of coach. I mentioned this with Kenny a bit earlier on. They've had the whole suite.
They've had the Messiah, the Succession Plan, the Favourite Son, the Brightest Assistant, the Caretaker, and the Recycle. They've tried them all. So either they keep hiring the wrong person or it's not the coach. It's in the walls. Jerry, sometimes you should just let the data do the talking.
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Chapter 6: What are the implications of player management and recruitment at Carlton?
but you never know. Maybe a better stocked and better performing and more confident AFL might have in the past, but I suspect their state means they're not dabbling terribly far outside their own corridors at the moment.
Yeah, and I think if you think about who's in there, Dylan, Harley and Swan would probably feel the most confident because once you get near coaching, your job is to sort of just make sure the process is run well. But at the same time, maybe you just landed in here. So maybe don't take a risk on the coach this time. You know, I think that's about the extent of which they might say.
And maybe Carlton do need a young coach. Who knows? But, you know, they might just lend a bit of maybe a soft parameter on what they think would work. So just give me that as a closing point. Carlton should get the best coach for them. And Graham Wright. So he's had two different guys. He chose Sam Mitchell at Hawthorne and he ran a brilliant process at Collingwood that landed Craig McRae.
Do you think Carlton would chew up a certain type of coach? The two extremes are John Longmire is the culture builder. Everything that Carlton is not, John has been and done over a long period of time at Sydney. And then at the other end is the well-credentialed, about-to-burst assistant coach, who might be low-profile in the way that Craig McRae, but he might be the gem.
Do you have a leaning either way? First of all, Graham's obviously good at picking a coach. They're two pretty handy coaches, Jared, and particularly McCray, like 20 years as an assistant coach and then turns out to be a brilliant senior coach. I think what I... I would always err if I was Carlton on this one.
I think, unfortunately, this is, as I said to you, how I would be doing it is I would be setting myself for a few really hard years and I would probably want to either A, a very bullish person like an Adam Kingsley, very strong-minded, very determined, very clear in how he wants to play, very good at dealing with outside noise, and that would work.
Or I'd want a very hardened pro who gives space and will drive the agenda I want as well as on-field performance, which might be a long way. But if I do that... I'd want to know they're up for the fight. And I think that's always the hardest thing for a second time coach.
And, you know, you've obviously got Ken on and John Longmire and Leon Cameron, these ones have done all, and they could do it all again, but it's a hundred hour a week job. You're everything from a coach to a media presenter, to a list manager, to a sponsor, to sales, you're everything in that job. You'd want to be up for the fight. And I think
I think both can work, but I'd be, A, my caveat would be if you go for the older person, are they up for the big, big fight? And if you get a new person, what's that level of, like, resilience and doggedness to be like, this is how we're doing it and we're going to go? While still, obviously, you always absorb internal feedback and where it's required, but can they just absorb it?
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Chapter 7: How does Malcolm Speed view the state of sports administration?
You're right. I mean, there was an 87, there was a 77. This 100 was in vain, but... He's the kind of 100 where it will get talked about for a while to come, even though it came in a loss. And now that he's back in the squad or he has been retained in the white ball squads for Australia, maybe that's where Australia could look to play him as well.
I'd be surprised if they don't bat him at number three behind Hayden Marsh. And suddenly that looks like something you could work with going forward. It's been an IPL without tight finishes. Is that fair to observe? And thus, when we had one, it really did stand out. It absolutely did.
So it was Bangalore getting over the line last week against... I forgot who it was against, but it doesn't matter. Because it was all about Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, who we've seen before many times on Australian soil. I think Aaron Finch still dreads facing Bhuvaneshwar Kumar, even though he's long retired. And yeah, I mean, he walked out with Bangalore needing a 9-for-3 in a big game.
I mean, it was two teams involved at the top of the table. And he just hit his first six in 10 years in the IPL. And that too over deep extra cover, sensational shot. And then just showed his maturity and experience when they needed two of one. just pushed it down the ground and came back for a second run.
So, yeah, that was Bangalore beating Mumbai and knocking them out of the tournament, actually. So, yeah, because we've spoken about this in the last few weeks, we've seen a lot of scores of 220 and 230 being chased down with at least an over to spare. But I think that will change now, Jared. We see it every year in the IPL.
As we get to May, especially venues who host a lot of games like Bangalore or Mumbai or Chennai, The pitches start tiring. And even the game last night, Sunrisers didn't have to chase a big total. But, you know, they were bowled out for 80-odd. And just on that, Jared, just watch out for Kagiso Rabada. This is probably the best he's bowled across formats in the last two, three years.
And why that is important is we're just, what, five months away from that big test series in South Africa. So, it's something to keep an eye on. He's right now on top of the Wicked Takers tally. So we've had 56 games of the 70 on the way to the finals. And as you point out, teams are being knocked out at the moment. Who are the best teams?
So Punjab, who we spoke about earlier, who went on that crazy run. So they've been grounded. They've lost their last three, four games. So they find themselves in the middle of the table. Sunrisers have had a good run, even though they lost last night. But Gujarat Titans, who started with three defeats, have now won five or six games on the trot.
So they don't have a massive Australian presence, except a genuinely massive Australian presence there. on the support staff in the form of Matthew Hayden. But, so they've been on, yeah, that's the team that Rabada plays for. So, captained by Shubman Gill. So, they are the momentum team and could well become the first team to qualify. But, from one to seven, Thank you so much.
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Chapter 8: What updates are there on the IPL and its Australian players?
But I think it is pretty tough and things have changed. So this comes along at a time, a difficult time for Cricket Australia, where the England Cricket Board has sold the 100, sold... private ownership of the hundreds. So I think five of the counties sold 49%, 270%, 100%. And they got hundreds of thousands of pounds, I think something like 500,000 pounds for that. So a massive amount of money.
And the pressure's on. So their player payments have increased. They will continue to increase. The pressure is on Australia now. How do they respond to the discussion that's out there at the moment? And that's the issue that Todd faces.
Do you understand the reticence of ā so it's a 3-3 split at state level led by Cricket New South Wales?
I understand the reticence and both arguments are sound. New South Wales' argument is basically let's not sell the farm. Let's try to grow revenue from other sources. Well, that's fine. That's a business as usual. That's what Cricket Australia, Cricket New South Wales will be trying to do anyway. There's no magic solution there.
There's not going to be a new form of revenue that pops up that provides enough money to do this. The other argument is we need money to be able to join this arms race to sustain our league and... I'm reluctant to get into a bidding war here, but we need to be competitive. We need to be able to compete with the other leagues. So I've come around a bit, Gerard.
I think if we could see enough guardrails, enough provisos in place, I think I could support the SEL group. Now, the sorts of things I'm talking about, and I think the best example of this is the Australian Olympic Committee received $88 million for hosting the Sydney Olympics.
They've set up a foundation there where they've now turned that, they've funded, they've invested it well, they've funded their operations, a lot of their operations, and made grants to athletes, that sort of thing. It now sits at $170 million and it's a future fund there that underpins the Australian Olympic Committee.
Now, if there's $600, $800 million available to cricket here, if you could put $400 million into a fund like that, and invest it wisely and out of that pay an increase in the salary cap, perhaps two million per team. Now we get a bit blasƩ about millions and billions these days.
Now a million is still a lot of money but you put an extra two million into that and suddenly the Australian salary cap would be competitive with the hundred. It would be better than most of the other leagues. It would be very attractive. But I'd want to know that that was happening. There's nothing worse than seeing a sport sell out to private equity and then the money evaporates.
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