Kyle Risdahl

We've thought so hard about how it is that you actually do need to use things like subsidies and industrial policy, stockpiling and tariffs to get yourself out of these situations.

It is a little bit weird to realize that, yeah, I'm now saying this, but it's the reality that we're now in.

And

China is really a big part of this story.

And these are some of the tools that you have to figure out how to use effectively when you're going to engage with China in a trade war.

The thing is, though, Sumaya, you know, so let's go back before Trump won.

Right.

Before the original steel and aluminum tariffs in the previous four.

40-ish, maybe 80-ish years.

It's not like global trade was great, but there were rules and there were things that people did and didn't do.

And it kind of seems like they don't apply anymore, right?

Chad, I don't want to go too deep on the great man theory of history, but you and Smea had a piece in the New York Times the other day about the recent summit between President Trump and President Xi.

And you two basically, I'm paraphrasing, correct me if I'm wrong, this is never going to work with those two guys in charge, basically.

they're not seeking to get to a solution, I think, on this problem.

And so what we argued is you probably do need to have a different approach between these two economies.

And one of it is to recognize, especially on the case of the Chinese side,

They have built up so much market dominance in manufacturing sectors.

We all know now these examples of rare earths and permanent magnets that US companies are reliant on to be able to make things here at home, that you have to do something about that, right?

You need to reduce those dependencies somehow.

And right now, those two players, really, they've got a short-term truce.