Leslie John

So perhaps there's that reluctance too.

There's been research on this.

Holocaust survivors who have been able to

Make sense of what happened to them are have much more positive outcomes.

And I don't mean, you know, make it OK at all, but to kind of develop a deeper understanding of why this happened to them, all of the understand their feelings throughout it, the complexities of it.

the people who are able to process that and tell their story, they do so much better at moving on to the future and growing.

But if we just kind of vent about it all, and the goal isn't kind of growth and narrative sense-making, then that's not the good kind.

I do think, though, that I know this from data, that people think that they're going to be more of a burden than they actually are.

And in fact, so often...

People are happy to hear your disclosures.

I mean, you would be happy to hear a story like that, but you would feel very close to the person because one, you understand them better, but two, they chose to confide in you.

How special is that?

Yeah, I mean, it takes so much courage.

Philip, you are

So courageous.

I admire you so much and thank you for sharing your story.

One of the things that's so hard here is because it goes against the norm, it feels like you are wrong and which makes it hard to validate yourself.

And this is already a really hard thing to come to terms with, to really understand about yourself.

So it kind of impedes self-learning.

But the thing that really gives me hope is that Philip did find that ally, the woman he confided in.