Lewis Bollard

Yeah, I think it's a puzzle.

I mean, it seems so obvious that you can have far larger scale change at the level of governmental change and corporate change.

And instead, we get fixated about whether someone is completely vegan or vegetarian or like.

And I think what happened is when people started learning about this issue initially, it was just a few people and they felt totally powerless to achieve larger scale change.

And so they understandably focused on themselves.

And then it started to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It started to become an end in itself, where it was about personal purity as much as about the impact you're having on the issue.

And it's much easier to measure your own personal purity than it is to measure your total impact on reforming factory farming.

And so I think it just became this kind of inward focus.

And the good news is I think that has changed tremendously in the last decade.

I think the movement has gone from being one that was obsessed with personal purity, obsessed with dietary choices, to one that is much more obsessed with impact.

Yeah, I think there have been three large scale drivers of progress so far.

So the first has been government policy.

So advocates got the European Union to set basic animal welfare standards.

That is billions of animals every year, billions every year.

Then there's corporate reforms.

And we see the same thing, that there's this incredible scale across these corporate supply chains.

I mean, McDonald's just implemented its pledge to go cage-free in the US.

That alone is 7 million hens every year out of cages just in the McDonald's supply chain.

And then the third lever is technology.