Lewis Bollard

You didn't tell us you were using caged eggs.

And people still might think that even the new reality is not as good as what they thought things should be.

They still would rather the animals were going outside, which they're not.

And in a lot of cases, there are these phasins over time.

So McDonald's is like, in 10 years' time, we're going to get rid of the caged eggs.

It's like, well, you don't want to advertise that too loudly, because for the next 10 years, I'm eating caged eggs, and I didn't know that previously.

So I think that is just the unfortunate dynamic is because this dissonance is so great between current practices and the reality.

that merely getting rid of the worst practices is not enough to create an advertising claim.

I think it has been.

I think it's been phenomenally successful with these consumer-facing brands, like the retailers, the fast food chains.

Advocates have been able to secure over 3,000 corporate animal welfare pledges now globally, including from all the biggest retailers, all the biggest fast food chains, affecting hundreds of millions of animals.

Yeah.

And I think the reason for that is twofold.

The first is there's a totally different structure from the structure in place on the legislative side.

On the legislative side, if you want to pass an animal welfare reform in Congress or in any state legislature, it goes to the Agriculture Committee.

The Agriculture Committee is dominated by a bunch of people who are in the pocket of big ag, and they kill the bill.

It never even gets out of that committee, let alone getting to the whole legislature.

If you go to a company, you go to someone who is a decision maker who is not being lobbied by industry, or if they are being lobbied, is far less susceptible to that lobbying than they are.

I also think companies have just proven more responsive to consumers than politicians are to their voters.

I think politicians have decided...