Lewis Bollard

that they need to be responsive on like the 10 issues their voters care most about.

Maybe it's fewer than that.

But that on low salience issues like this, they can just ignore what their voters want and do what their donors are telling them what to do or what's easier to do.

Whereas I think what corporations are finding is actually if consumers are really outraged about this, then we need to act.

And maybe this is higher on the list of salience for consumers

at a retailer, because they're not worried about what's their taxation policy.

It's like, for a retailer, actually, what is the quality of the goods you are selling?

That is a pretty critical factor.

One other thing I'll say is, we know from surveys that when it comes to sustainability, animal welfare is the top thing people care about.

So for all this talk we see from companies about climate change and prioritizing climate change, both the McDonald's and the Tysons and so on, they've all said this is the thing that consumers actually care about.

Yeah, I mean, there's been this weird conflating, and there's even been this very cynical exploitation of the climate issue by producers

to not do animal welfare reforms.

So something that Tyson Foods will say is, we can't move to these higher welfare breeds because they would have a slightly bigger carbon footprint because they eat a little bit more.

And also, if you let the animals move around a lot, they expend more calories.

And so that's got a bigger carbon footprint, right?

It's this total absurdity.

I had a conversation with the SVP for sustainability at one of the largest meat companies.

And what they told me was, yes, we know from internal surveys that animal welfare is actually more important to consumers, but we are far more responsive to what the fast food companies and the investors are telling us.

And the fast food companies and the investors are obsessed with climate.

Like ESG stuff?