Liam Tuffs

Because you've been painted by the media and hope not hate to be quite a different person to what you actually are.

And what's the parallel then between, let's go into 2009 when...

the EDL was born.

Oh, yeah.

What was the lightbulb moment that made you think, enough, we need to form the EDL, or it was the UPL first, weren't it?

Yeah, run through that whole story, because a lot of people have heard it from Tommy's side, but never from yours, because you've always been the grey man in the crowd.

Osama bin Laden's mother is a whore.

Was Osama bin Laden's mother a whore?

Is this before the UPL?

How tempting was it to make one with Osama bin Laden's mother's a whore on it?

Yeah, I know, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Did you feel responsible at the time that you've got to manage this crowd that you've put together?

That's huge pressure.

Because movements like that are always going to attract live wires that you can't control.

Yep, 100%.

And what was the overall UPL purpose?

Yeah.

Because the EDL was, I mean, again, because I wasn't about in the EDL days, despite what people think, but EDL was predominantly an anti-radical Muslim movement.

Yes.

So was the UPL the same?