Lionel Shriver

The vast majority out there needs somebody to speak for them.

That's what I'm trying to do.

And maybe you could step outside of me and say, well, this is just an act of self-promotion, right?

This is narcissistic.

Your books are narcissistic.

This is a kind of moral display.

In other words, it's possible to turn all that stuff on yourself.

And therefore, I think it's important, even when disagreeing with the progressive left, to at least give them credit that I think they do believe that they believe what they say.

I also think there was an element of assumed imperviousness in these anti-ice protests.

I do not think that either of the people who got shot in Minneapolis believed that they were genuinely putting their lives in danger.

They're middle class and imagined that no harm would befall them.

It's a kind of

entitlement that, you know, so in that all of this is a performance, it feels like theater.

And they didn't actually believe that trying to stop armed law enforcement from doing their job was potentially putting themselves in harm's way.

I just don't think that was the world in which they were mentally living.

I mean, I didn't, I was not convinced that either of those shootings was righteous.

I think it showed poor judgment on ICE's part.

But at the same time, it was a joint effort.

There were misjudgments on both sides.

Yes, I mean, Martine, the immigrant who's invited into the house, the first one, she makes that point very specifically, that...