Liz Bates

That would have been better. Can I just say, though, as somebody who works for Sky, I don't think there's anything sadder. than a child growing up without Sky. Shout out to my bosses.

That would have been better. Can I just say, though, as somebody who works for Sky, I don't think there's anything sadder. than a child growing up without Sky. Shout out to my bosses.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it was. And I think the other thing is when a narrative starts around you, it's very hard to get away from it. So it was like, they're doing badly. Somebody said to me at the time, imagine if Zelensky had stood in the rain and made an announcement about something. Everyone would have, you know, in his kind of army,

I think it was. And I think the other thing is when a narrative starts around you, it's very hard to get away from it. So it was like, they're doing badly. Somebody said to me at the time, imagine if Zelensky had stood in the rain and made an announcement about something. Everyone would have, you know, in his kind of army,

If you're cool and you've got it going on and you've got the momentum, then you can kind of get away with anything. And if you stand in the rain, everyone's like, OK, that's cool. He doesn't even need an umbrella. He doesn't give a shit about the rain. But because it's Rishi Sunak, everything just suddenly became about what is he going to fuck up next? And that was the entire narrative.

If you're cool and you've got it going on and you've got the momentum, then you can kind of get away with anything. And if you stand in the rain, everyone's like, OK, that's cool. He doesn't even need an umbrella. He doesn't give a shit about the rain. But because it's Rishi Sunak, everything just suddenly became about what is he going to fuck up next? And that was the entire narrative.

And so everything that he said, you know, we picked out all the funny bits and it was, the government was so done.

And so everything that he said, you know, we picked out all the funny bits and it was, the government was so done.

I only learned about them half an hour ago, but that is a bukkake, if ever I've heard one. Ah!

I only learned about them half an hour ago, but that is a bukkake, if ever I've heard one. Ah!

No, I can't think of anything that that reminds me of.

No, I can't think of anything that that reminds me of.

I know what you mean though. At what point in your life do your Christmas decorations go to the charity shop? Is it when you die?

I know what you mean though. At what point in your life do your Christmas decorations go to the charity shop? Is it when you die?

I mean, it's a pretty strange type of scenario where there's really nothing that we can do about it. But the richest man in the world might decide to bankroll what is still, you know, they did get a big share and they do well in the opinion polls. in UK politics, but they're not hugely represented in Parliament and he's going to funnel cash into them.

I mean, it's a pretty strange type of scenario where there's really nothing that we can do about it. But the richest man in the world might decide to bankroll what is still, you know, they did get a big share and they do well in the opinion polls. in UK politics, but they're not hugely represented in Parliament and he's going to funnel cash into them.

I mean, usually I'm old enough to remember when people used to do this kind of behind the scenes because it wasn't considered legit to just throw money at a political party and try to swing an election. But apparently now it is. I think it will have a huge, huge sway on the next election. It's still a long way away. I could see a scenario where, you know, reform...

I mean, usually I'm old enough to remember when people used to do this kind of behind the scenes because it wasn't considered legit to just throw money at a political party and try to swing an election. But apparently now it is. I think it will have a huge, huge sway on the next election. It's still a long way away. I could see a scenario where, you know, reform...

breakthrough in a big way in the UK. Like seriously. And the money that Elon Musk and people like him, I mean, Nick Candy is a big donor as well. that they will provide will be decisive in that. And so we're basically at the whim of billionaires and whatever they feel like, you know, I mean, Elon Musk feels like he's just in his kind of, I want to fuck with the world era.

breakthrough in a big way in the UK. Like seriously. And the money that Elon Musk and people like him, I mean, Nick Candy is a big donor as well. that they will provide will be decisive in that. And so we're basically at the whim of billionaires and whatever they feel like, you know, I mean, Elon Musk feels like he's just in his kind of, I want to fuck with the world era.

And this is the way that I'm going to do it today.

And this is the way that I'm going to do it today.

No, I mean, look, not really. I mean, it won't hang over this government, I don't think. That's not the sense that I get. And I think what was going on was we were so used to constantly looking for scandals that this became the kind of Labour government scandal for... a few weeks, they took free tickets, they registered them.

No, I mean, look, not really. I mean, it won't hang over this government, I don't think. That's not the sense that I get. And I think what was going on was we were so used to constantly looking for scandals that this became the kind of Labour government scandal for... a few weeks, they took free tickets, they registered them.

You might think, as I do, our politicians need to stop taking so much free shit. I would really like to see less free shit taken.

You might think, as I do, our politicians need to stop taking so much free shit. I would really like to see less free shit taken.

But also, look, because I want to say, I love free shit. Like, I love free stuff so much.

But also, look, because I want to say, I love free shit. Like, I love free stuff so much.

Yes. Like literally, if there's like some free sandwiches going, I'm like, yes, I'll take, I'll eat 10 and take some home with me. But I just think the problem was there was a lot of false equivalence going on between what happened to Boris Johnson was it was all, he never declared anything. That was the problem.

Yes. Like literally, if there's like some free sandwiches going, I'm like, yes, I'll take, I'll eat 10 and take some home with me. But I just think the problem was there was a lot of false equivalence going on between what happened to Boris Johnson was it was all, he never declared anything. That was the problem.

So journalists were finding out like, hang on, like where did this money come from to redo the flat? Some fucking Lord that we never heard of. Like it wasn't all properly declared. And so there was this kind of, you know, There was a feeling that it was still going on, but it was actually a different thing. Maybe they shouldn't be taking so many Taylor Swift tickets.

So journalists were finding out like, hang on, like where did this money come from to redo the flat? Some fucking Lord that we never heard of. Like it wasn't all properly declared. And so there was this kind of, you know, There was a feeling that it was still going on, but it was actually a different thing. Maybe they shouldn't be taking so many Taylor Swift tickets.

I don't know why Keir Starmer's taking so many clothes from Lord Ali, but it was different. It's different.

I don't know why Keir Starmer's taking so many clothes from Lord Ali, but it was different. It's different.

I have a massive head both metaphorically... Not a surface area on that head for a bukkake if you wanted one. Oh my goodness me.

I have a massive head both metaphorically... Not a surface area on that head for a bukkake if you wanted one. Oh my goodness me.

It feels relatively appropriate.

It feels relatively appropriate.

So they lent their votes to the person that they wanted to see him go against in the final round, basically, and they lent too many votes.

So they lent their votes to the person that they wanted to see him go against in the final round, basically, and they lent too many votes.

Yes, exactly. The problem is, it's such a small party now that they'd sort of miscalculated in terms of numbers. And so... Yeah, that went badly for them.

Yes, exactly. The problem is, it's such a small party now that they'd sort of miscalculated in terms of numbers. And so... Yeah, that went badly for them.

Yeah, it has. So I was here, I was on maternity leave when we were talking about the actual general election. So I was watching that as a viewer. There were just so many beautiful images, like, you know, Rishi Sunak in the rain. I think that was a defining image of this kind of conservative era. And it was just quite funny, just him getting soggy.

Yeah, it has. So I was here, I was on maternity leave when we were talking about the actual general election. So I was watching that as a viewer. There were just so many beautiful images, like, you know, Rishi Sunak in the rain. I think that was a defining image of this kind of conservative era. And it was just quite funny, just him getting soggy.

I think what you've seen with this government so far is there was a long period of time, and we did the podcast during that period, where we thought maybe they've got a plan and they're just keeping it a secret. And then during the election campaign, we were like, well, they seem like they're not really ready, but they'll obviously be ready for the election. Ready for government.

I think what you've seen with this government so far is there was a long period of time, and we did the podcast during that period, where we thought maybe they've got a plan and they're just keeping it a secret. And then during the election campaign, we were like, well, they seem like they're not really ready, but they'll obviously be ready for the election. Ready for government.

And then they got into government and we were like, oh, they're just not ready and they actually don't have a plan. So I think when it comes to lots of things, they're figuring it out.

And then they got into government and we were like, oh, they're just not ready and they actually don't have a plan. So I think when it comes to lots of things, they're figuring it out.

And then going back to work, covering the Labour government. I don't know. I mean, it's quite, it's in some ways interesting. It's quite, in some ways, quite a boring government, I think. Definitely more boring. A lot more policy-based stuff. And I think there's a sense of kind of mild disappointment.

And then going back to work, covering the Labour government. I don't know. I mean, it's quite, it's in some ways interesting. It's quite, in some ways, quite a boring government, I think. Definitely more boring. A lot more policy-based stuff. And I think there's a sense of kind of mild disappointment.

And I think when it comes to how to approach America, they're doing that as well.

And I think when it comes to how to approach America, they're doing that as well.

I think we should suggest policies to them and they would probably go for it at this point.

I think we should suggest policies to them and they would probably go for it at this point.

I know. With the public.

I know. With the public.

No, no, no.

No, no, no.

Literally anyone.

Literally anyone.

Anyone. It's like they're opening the windows in Whitehall and going, has anyone got any policy ideas out here?

Anyone. It's like they're opening the windows in Whitehall and going, has anyone got any policy ideas out here?

Yes. Yes, I know it sounds like an obvious question, but yes. Yes is the answer. Shame you weren't at any of their meetings before the election. A lot of UK government and how it rolls out is about the character of the person at the centre of it and that is Keir Starmer.

Yes. Yes, I know it sounds like an obvious question, but yes. Yes is the answer. Shame you weren't at any of their meetings before the election. A lot of UK government and how it rolls out is about the character of the person at the centre of it and that is Keir Starmer.

And I think the sense that I have got from him and what has come across is he basically, he managed a big organisation in the CPS and he was like, I'm really great at managing things. I think I should manage the country. And so that's it. He thinks, surely let's just manage this better. And so their plan is like, make the NHS better, make the education system better.

And I think the sense that I have got from him and what has come across is he basically, he managed a big organisation in the CPS and he was like, I'm really great at managing things. I think I should manage the country. And so that's it. He thinks, surely let's just manage this better. And so their plan is like, make the NHS better, make the education system better.

He's not really a political strategist and he hasn't brought in any political strategists. And they've been out of office in opposition for 14 years. And so they've all got into Whitehall and been like, Jesus Christ, this doesn't work very well. And how do we sort it all out?

He's not really a political strategist and he hasn't brought in any political strategists. And they've been out of office in opposition for 14 years. And so they've all got into Whitehall and been like, Jesus Christ, this doesn't work very well. And how do we sort it all out?

Not kind of rage, but yeah, a bit of mild disappointment. But not things coming at you from all sides.

Not kind of rage, but yeah, a bit of mild disappointment. But not things coming at you from all sides.

I think, look, one of the things is when you look at the 14 years of the Conservative government, it was kind of overshadowed by Brexit and Boris Johnson. And that was genuinely chaotic for the way that just the country runs. And so having a consistent government that is just trying to get departments to run things better is actually not a bad idea because we weren't doing it.

I think, look, one of the things is when you look at the 14 years of the Conservative government, it was kind of overshadowed by Brexit and Boris Johnson. And that was genuinely chaotic for the way that just the country runs. And so having a consistent government that is just trying to get departments to run things better is actually not a bad idea because we weren't doing it.

So that is a good idea. Separately from that. I think there's disappointment within the Labour ranks and probably amongst Labour voters now as well, that there's no broader vision for shifting the way that the economy works in a way that feels fairer. So taking on things like water privatisation, right? You would think a Labour government will come in and say, OK, we'll sort that out.

So that is a good idea. Separately from that. I think there's disappointment within the Labour ranks and probably amongst Labour voters now as well, that there's no broader vision for shifting the way that the economy works in a way that feels fairer. So taking on things like water privatisation, right? You would think a Labour government will come in and say, OK, we'll sort that out.

The last government I felt was a kind of political bukkake in that sense.

The last government I felt was a kind of political bukkake in that sense.

But their approach to that is, oh, we'll make the regulator better.

But their approach to that is, oh, we'll make the regulator better.

Yeah, exactly that. And because, and it's basically because he's not a great thinker. When you look back on some of the transformative governments, whether you liked them or not in this country, so, you know, Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, they had a central kind of political and economic thesis.

Yeah, exactly that. And because, and it's basically because he's not a great thinker. When you look back on some of the transformative governments, whether you liked them or not in this country, so, you know, Margaret Thatcher, Tony Blair, they had a central kind of political and economic thesis.

At least 1945. Exactly. Exactly. Right. So they they spend time, you know, in some ways it feels quite separate from politics day to day, but it's intellectual. It's thinking about the future, a vision of a country and a world that is different from the one that you're in now that has never been done before. So, you know, look at Thatcher and the way that she privatised everything.

At least 1945. Exactly. Exactly. Right. So they they spend time, you know, in some ways it feels quite separate from politics day to day, but it's intellectual. It's thinking about the future, a vision of a country and a world that is different from the one that you're in now that has never been done before. So, you know, look at Thatcher and the way that she privatised everything.

And then you look at Blair and the kind of third way we're living with the consequences of both of those things. kind of political theories now, but they pushed those through and made them into policies day to day. Keir Starmer's not that guy. Like he is not that guy.

And then you look at Blair and the kind of third way we're living with the consequences of both of those things. kind of political theories now, but they pushed those through and made them into policies day to day. Keir Starmer's not that guy. Like he is not that guy.

He did not sit around for 10 years talking to his friends and talking to his political associates about political vision and political theory. He literally just managed a big organization and now he's like, I'm going to manage another one that's even bigger.

He did not sit around for 10 years talking to his friends and talking to his political associates about political vision and political theory. He literally just managed a big organization and now he's like, I'm going to manage another one that's even bigger.

Absolutely, yeah. And look, I mean, it sounds like I'm kind of shitbagging here. You know, the war I'm talking about is really kind of the perfect idea... of a leader, which is somebody who has a great vision and then can also make that happen day to day. That's a really difficult thing to do. He's a middle manager and maybe we do need that.

Absolutely, yeah. And look, I mean, it sounds like I'm kind of shitbagging here. You know, the war I'm talking about is really kind of the perfect idea... of a leader, which is somebody who has a great vision and then can also make that happen day to day. That's a really difficult thing to do. He's a middle manager and maybe we do need that.

I don't know what that means for the next phase of British politics.

I don't know what that means for the next phase of British politics.

It's good.

It's good.

Yeah, he's clever because he knows we can't take the piss. I know. Because it's full of young carers. And we have to be like, that's really cute.

Yeah, he's clever because he knows we can't take the piss. I know. Because it's full of young carers. And we have to be like, that's really cute.

But once again.

But once again.

I would just like to thank you guys because I felt like I started off with the bukkake thinking maybe that's going to be a bit rude and inappropriate, but you just went with it. You were like, no.

I would just like to thank you guys because I felt like I started off with the bukkake thinking maybe that's going to be a bit rude and inappropriate, but you just went with it. You were like, no.

Yeah, I think it does. And I think the reason that it kind of encapsulates, particularly the final throws of the Conservative government, is because it just didn't work. You know, people in this studio are very left wing. The country is much more centrist and right wing. But the problem with the end for the Conservatives was nobody believed that they could do anything.

Yeah, I think it does. And I think the reason that it kind of encapsulates, particularly the final throws of the Conservative government, is because it just didn't work. You know, people in this studio are very left wing. The country is much more centrist and right wing. But the problem with the end for the Conservatives was nobody believed that they could do anything.

They just did not believe them. When Rishi Sunak stood up and said, I'm going to stop the boats, people were like, no, you're not. No, you're not, because you can't even get your flagship policy to work. And I think that is, in the end, why they called the election so early, because they just stopped being able to do anything. It became a government of incompetence from the top to the bottom.

They just did not believe them. When Rishi Sunak stood up and said, I'm going to stop the boats, people were like, no, you're not. No, you're not, because you can't even get your flagship policy to work. And I think that is, in the end, why they called the election so early, because they just stopped being able to do anything. It became a government of incompetence from the top to the bottom.

But I have to say that level of self-esteem is something that I really sometimes think I'd just like to try it out for a day. Incredible. You aim for a job. You get it. You fuck it up. Just so spectacularly. Historically. It's just, it's humiliation on the biggest scale possible. And at the end of it, you're like, God, well, I did great. I did so great. Well done me.

But I have to say that level of self-esteem is something that I really sometimes think I'd just like to try it out for a day. Incredible. You aim for a job. You get it. You fuck it up. Just so spectacularly. Historically. It's just, it's humiliation on the biggest scale possible. And at the end of it, you're like, God, well, I did great. I did so great. Well done me.

I guess everyone else was against me, but that's fine. I'm going to write a book about how great I did.

I guess everyone else was against me, but that's fine. I'm going to write a book about how great I did.

Yeah, no props.

Yeah, no props.

She has risen.

She has risen.

Look, I think at that point we were living in the shadow of the kind of Boris Johnson era, right? There was so much incompetence, so much lying, party gate, all of that. And I think that by the time we got to Frank Hester, under normal circumstances, that would have been a much bigger scandal. Yeah.

Look, I think at that point we were living in the shadow of the kind of Boris Johnson era, right? There was so much incompetence, so much lying, party gate, all of that. And I think that by the time we got to Frank Hester, under normal circumstances, that would have been a much bigger scandal. Yeah.

But, you know, we went through this bizarre period where you had ministers going on TV saying the comment wasn't about race or gender when he literally said black women. He literally pointed out her race and gender. That's what it was about. Over and over.

But, you know, we went through this bizarre period where you had ministers going on TV saying the comment wasn't about race or gender when he literally said black women. He literally pointed out her race and gender. That's what it was about. Over and over.

So we were in the twilight zone where you're sitting, you know, you're sitting across from a minister and you're like, but you're just saying something that is...

So we were in the twilight zone where you're sitting, you know, you're sitting across from a minister and you're like, but you're just saying something that is...

total nonsense it's wrong and and I think by that time there was just so much frustration around the government the reason that they didn't give the money back I think they probably would have liked to give the money back but they couldn't because he's such a massive donor um side note he's a massive lot of things he's a I won't say it But side note, he made his money from NHS contracts.

total nonsense it's wrong and and I think by that time there was just so much frustration around the government the reason that they didn't give the money back I think they probably would have liked to give the money back but they couldn't because he's such a massive donor um side note he's a massive lot of things he's a I won't say it But side note, he made his money from NHS contracts.

So it all goes round in a big circle.

So it all goes round in a big circle.

It's like, it works like this, right? The government oversees a structure via which there is privatisation in the NHS. People like... This total wanker, Frank Hester, I think I can say that with complete impartiality. That's objectively true based on what he says. He makes loads of money, then he sends it right back to the government so they stay in power so that he can keep making money.

It's like, it works like this, right? The government oversees a structure via which there is privatisation in the NHS. People like... This total wanker, Frank Hester, I think I can say that with complete impartiality. That's objectively true based on what he says. He makes loads of money, then he sends it right back to the government so they stay in power so that he can keep making money.

And, you know, in between that, he just says, like, loads of random racist, sexist shit in meetings. I mean, that's... And that is the world that we live in. But again, it's like... Happy Christmas, everyone. LAUGHTER

And, you know, in between that, he just says, like, loads of random racist, sexist shit in meetings. I mean, that's... And that is the world that we live in. But again, it's like... Happy Christmas, everyone. LAUGHTER

No, I mean, we were all hit. We sort of watched it all happen. And yeah, it was just a mess. It was just a mess. And I think it was, when you look back on it now, you can see the drizzle was sort of perfect because the whole government just felt soggy. And he just seemed knackered. And the people that I was talking to that were working behind the scenes were just looking for jobs.

No, I mean, we were all hit. We sort of watched it all happen. And yeah, it was just a mess. It was just a mess. And I think it was, when you look back on it now, you can see the drizzle was sort of perfect because the whole government just felt soggy. And he just seemed knackered. And the people that I was talking to that were working behind the scenes were just looking for jobs.

You know, they were spending their time like genuinely job searching. because everyone just felt like it was done. And then it was one thing after another.

You know, they were spending their time like genuinely job searching. because everyone just felt like it was done. And then it was one thing after another.