Lloyd Blankfein

And not so much in bigger organizations.

Totally.

We always wanted to achieve.

That's another thing, to try to be an entrepreneur in an institution.

Totally.

Maybe I'll transition, because I want to get to the financial crisis and a few other questions, maybe more present day.

But, you know, Goldman fared, obviously, incredibly well during the financial crisis, you know, and obviously earned public backlash, I would argue, unfairly, you know, as a result.

Yeah, guess what, I agree with that.

Yeah, yeah, I figured.

What do you think helped the firm navigate that period so well?

You know, was it risk management, technology?

The fact you didn't have a big consumer business?

Risk management.

The lack of a big consumer business hurt us in the back end on the reputational side because people didn't know us.

Right.

We were a big, influential government sack.

So I have, you know, people who left Goldman became very big officials, prime ministers, and by the way, not just in the U.S., overseas as well.

Totally.

And so, but...

In the beginning, you know, risk management culture, and maybe that stemmed from the fact that we were a partnership.