Lois Logan

I was very fortunate.

Ruben is different in the sense that Ruben cannot be alone.

Maybe more so now.

Not for a bad reason.

Not for a bad reason.

He likes being around people.

He is itching to just have a social connection.

But then that also might come from kind of, you know, something else, not necessarily a personality type, it might just be that you like to just maybe not... Well, now I'm the opposite than I was when I was 20 years old.

Yeah, but I mean, sometimes it is like... Do you not love your mates?

But sometimes I do think it's like, Ruben, you haven't seen that person for five years, you went to primary school with them, why are you meeting up with them today?

Because I have to, you know?

having that I don't see him nearly as much have you noticed that kind of shift or has he been quite good do you know what he actually calls me more now he's definitely grown up a lot I do want to laugh can we clip this up for him nine months and so like yesterday he called me and he was just driving back from training we had a nice long chat

um so actually I sometimes actually but then I think with Ruben because I don't know I don't feel like I think our closeness uh drifted when he left home at 17 the first time because also he just you know it was so exciting for him and he was so young and I was kind of doing my own thing but now I think yeah when we're back to being a lot more close not that we weren't

Probably someone shouting in their phone at the minute going, telling you what it is.

Like a determination.

I get that because I think at school, Ruben was always the sporty one and I was the more... Not that I was...

an exceptional academic but I was definitely the more academic twin and that worked because we were never really that competitive you know I would come home and have a nice grade card Ruben would have you know I mean fine average okay sometimes bad and my report would be good and Ruben's wouldn't be so good interesting yeah interesting and then Ruben would go and win all of his you know rugby games and whatever and I would go and do sport but I didn't necessarily I think at some point you know I put a lot of pressure on myself

Wasn't your drive, though?

Pardon?

You wanted to do well, but you weren't... My sport is very different to a lot of other sports.