Lucy Fisher

Let's talk a little bit about the Starmer fight back that started this week.

Seems to have met the massive hurdle of his defence secretary resigning.

But there'd been this sense last week that we talked about on the pod that

The fight had gone out of Downing Street.

The mood was really bleak and grim.

Starmer had tried at the beginning of this week, Jim, to call in the junior ministers, stiffen their resolve, look them in the eye and make clear that if there is a contest, he isn't going to roll over.

There isn't going to be some smooth transition.

He will fight.

I don't know.

I slightly think a win's a win.

That's the, them's the breaks in politics.

If he wins by one vote, he's still beaten the competitors.

Yeah.

Shall we talk now about John Healey and his bombshell resignation on Thursday?

Jen, I thought it was devastating, his letter to the Prime Minister, in which he accused the Prime Minister of being unable, unable...

to commit the resources that the nation needs to defend itself and accusing the Treasury of being unwilling.

So basically saying Starmer's too weak and Rachel Reeves is too obstinate to commit the money needed to keep the UK safe.

Healy revealed that on Monday, it was the first time in this month's long process that he got the final settlement figure for the defence investment plan,

which he'd hoped would be 18 billion.

It was right down at 13.5 billion.