Lulu Garcia Navarro

And obviously, outlets, especially now, need to have a relationship with people with money, and they always have had that relationship.

I just wonder, why do you think people like this get involved in journalism?

I don't think we can talk about this era for journalism without talking about the president, Donald Trump.

You and he, again, were coming up in that same era.

You really got it in for the 80s, didn't you?

But I just wonder, what did he learn back then, you think, that has made him such a master manipulator of the media and the attention economy today?

I mean, how do you shock people in an era where there is no shame?

So who is the most odious person in media right now?

God, so many.

Tina Brown, thank you so much.

We're going to speak again, but I really appreciate you coming in.

Thank you.

After the break, I talk to Tina again, and she tells me the lesson that she takes from Zoran Mamdani's win.

So since we last spoke, there have been, to say the least, some developments on the Prince Andrew front.

King Charles stripped him of his last remaining titles.

He is no longer a prince, evicted him from Royal Lodge.

So are we at the end of the Prince Andrew sorry saga?

Yeah.

I mean, isn't part of the problem with someone like Andrew that if you cut him off completely and you kick him out of the royal family utterly, then he is a loose cannon out in the world with no means of supporting himself and could wreak all sorts of havoc.

Indeed.