Lulu Garcia Navarro

Keeley is a former civil rights lawyer who, in 2014, became the nation's first openly gay state attorney general. In 2022, she won the governorship. And while she may not have the same national profile as some of her colleagues, like J.B. Pritzker of Illinois or Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, she's known as being deeply influential in the party behind closed doors.

Keeley is a former civil rights lawyer who, in 2014, became the nation's first openly gay state attorney general. In 2022, she won the governorship. And while she may not have the same national profile as some of her colleagues, like J.B. Pritzker of Illinois or Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, she's known as being deeply influential in the party behind closed doors.

So as part of a series of conversations I'm having with Democrats, I wanted to talk to Healy about how she views her role as the governor of a blue state in this second Trump term and how she thinks her party can wage an effective fight. Here's my conversation with Massachusetts Governor Maura Healy. Governor Healy, you just returned from D.C.

So as part of a series of conversations I'm having with Democrats, I wanted to talk to Healy about how she views her role as the governor of a blue state in this second Trump term and how she thinks her party can wage an effective fight. Here's my conversation with Massachusetts Governor Maura Healy. Governor Healy, you just returned from D.C.

for the annual National Governors Association meeting. And you attended an event with the president along with other governors. What did you discuss with the other governors, both Democratic and Republican, while you were there?

for the annual National Governors Association meeting. And you attended an event with the president along with other governors. What did you discuss with the other governors, both Democratic and Republican, while you were there?

And we should say this was about transgender rights and about his executive order to do with transgender rights. And then he called her out. Right. And then she responded immediately. basically, that she would follow the laws of her state and the federal government and the federal government and that she would see him in court. And that didn't seem to go down well.

And we should say this was about transgender rights and about his executive order to do with transgender rights. And then he called her out. Right. And then she responded immediately. basically, that she would follow the laws of her state and the federal government and the federal government and that she would see him in court. And that didn't seem to go down well.

What was the feeling afterwards among the Democratic governors in particular after that exchange?

What was the feeling afterwards among the Democratic governors in particular after that exchange?

Governor, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is because I am interested to know how Democratic governors are seeing this moment and how to maneuver in the second Trump era. Until now, you've been not as publicly combative as perhaps other governors have been.

Governor, one of the reasons I wanted to talk to you is because I am interested to know how Democratic governors are seeing this moment and how to maneuver in the second Trump era. Until now, you've been not as publicly combative as perhaps other governors have been.

And I'm wondering if that's because Donald Trump is seemingly more willing to be punitive or is it because his policies have been popular? I mean, what are you weighing when you're thinking about how to talk about this administration?

And I'm wondering if that's because Donald Trump is seemingly more willing to be punitive or is it because his policies have been popular? I mean, what are you weighing when you're thinking about how to talk about this administration?

You, of course, were AG. You have direct experience with this. I am curious if you really do think that how the AGs are operating, if it's the best way. Because, for example, you were accused of politicizing the AG's office by jumping into national issues. It's something that is often said about AGs. Right. Right. It's become this kind of pattern.

You, of course, were AG. You have direct experience with this. I am curious if you really do think that how the AGs are operating, if it's the best way. Because, for example, you were accused of politicizing the AG's office by jumping into national issues. It's something that is often said about AGs. Right. Right. It's become this kind of pattern.

And I'm curious, do you think that AG should be getting in these federal fights so consistently?

And I'm curious, do you think that AG should be getting in these federal fights so consistently?

Then you saw Republicans do the same, obviously, during the Biden administration. And they would argue that they were doing the same thing.

Then you saw Republicans do the same, obviously, during the Biden administration. And they would argue that they were doing the same thing.