Lulu Garcia Navarro

But you've left a country that is in control of the Taliban, where... The stated dream of spreading democracy has been completely upended. Women have borne the brunt of that. You know, there's restrictions on their movements, restrictions on even their voices, what jobs they can take.

But you've left a country that is in control of the Taliban, where... The stated dream of spreading democracy has been completely upended. Women have borne the brunt of that. You know, there's restrictions on their movements, restrictions on even their voices, what jobs they can take.

I mean, in every possible way, the manner in which this was done and the state in which Afghanistan has been left could not have been what the United States desired.

I mean, in every possible way, the manner in which this was done and the state in which Afghanistan has been left could not have been what the United States desired.

Six months after Afghanistan, Russia invaded Ukraine. That was February of 2022. I remember that moment as being terrifying. How close were we to direct conflict?

Six months after Afghanistan, Russia invaded Ukraine. That was February of 2022. I remember that moment as being terrifying. How close were we to direct conflict?

You made two early strategic decisions on Ukraine. The first, because of that fear of direct conflict, was to restrict Ukraine's use of American weapons within Russia. The second was to support Ukraine's military offensive without a parallel diplomatic track to try and end the conflict. How do you look back on those decisions now?

You made two early strategic decisions on Ukraine. The first, because of that fear of direct conflict, was to restrict Ukraine's use of American weapons within Russia. The second was to support Ukraine's military offensive without a parallel diplomatic track to try and end the conflict. How do you look back on those decisions now?

However, Ukraine has been left in this position now where a new administration is coming in. They have a very different view of the conflict. And one could argue that Ukraine is not in a terribly strong position to be able to navigate what comes next. We know that... President-elect Trump has members of people that surround him that are very willing to see Ukraine cede territory to Russia.

However, Ukraine has been left in this position now where a new administration is coming in. They have a very different view of the conflict. And one could argue that Ukraine is not in a terribly strong position to be able to navigate what comes next. We know that... President-elect Trump has members of people that surround him that are very willing to see Ukraine cede territory to Russia.

There has been no parallel diplomatic track. And the weapons are probably going to be drying up. So do you feel like you've left Ukraine in the strongest position that you could have? Or what are the things that you could have done differently?

There has been no parallel diplomatic track. And the weapons are probably going to be drying up. So do you feel like you've left Ukraine in the strongest position that you could have? Or what are the things that you could have done differently?

Do you think it's time to end the war, though?

Do you think it's time to end the war, though?

You mean that the areas that Russia controls you feel will have to be ceded?

You mean that the areas that Russia controls you feel will have to be ceded?

It's interesting. What I'm hearing you say is that Ukraine's fate will no longer rest in its major supporter, the United States. You see it as resting elsewhere, Europe, etc.

It's interesting. What I'm hearing you say is that Ukraine's fate will no longer rest in its major supporter, the United States. You see it as resting elsewhere, Europe, etc.

Well, let me pick up on something that you said and the idea of this interregnum that you have had of picking up from Trump and handing back to Trump because this is one of the conflicts that will be handed back to Trump. And his approach to foreign policy writ large seems to be to avoid engaging militarily while wanting the world to be scared of us.

Well, let me pick up on something that you said and the idea of this interregnum that you have had of picking up from Trump and handing back to Trump because this is one of the conflicts that will be handed back to Trump. And his approach to foreign policy writ large seems to be to avoid engaging militarily while wanting the world to be scared of us.