'The Interview': 3 Senators Who Quit on Why Congress Won’t Stand Up to Trump
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What is the current state of the Senate according to former senators?
This is Andrew Ross Sorkin, the founder of Dealbook. Every year, I interview some of the world's most influential leaders across politics, culture, and business at the Dealbook Summit, a live event in New York City. On this year's podcast, you'll hear my unfiltered conversations with Gavin Newsom, the CEO of Palantir and Anthropic, and Erica Kirk, the widow of Charlie Kirk. Listen to Dealbook Summit wherever you get your podcasts.
From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. Since the founding of our democracy, there's been a separation of powers. The Senate, in particular, was created to act as a stabilizing force with its own important responsibilities.
How has Trumpism influenced the Republican Party?
But after almost a year of the second Trump presidency, during which time he's pursued an aggressive agenda, the Senate is arguably weaker than ever, with some critics and senators saying it is abandoning its role in checking presidential power. So today I'm having a different kind of conversation than we usually do on the show. A roundtable about the state of the Senate with three lawmakers who all decided to leave it. Jeff Flake, a Republican, represented Arizona and left office in 2019, warning that the influence of Trumpism on the GOP would be corrosive to his party.
What challenges did Joe Manchin face as an independent senator?
We must never regard as normal the regular and casual undermining of our democratic norms and ideals.
Joe Manchin represented West Virginia, first as a Democrat who frequently voted with Republicans and later as a registered Independent. He left the Senate at the start of this year.
Why did Tina Smith decide not to seek reelection?
I was not elected to take a side. I was elected to represent all sides.
And Tina Smith is a Democrat who currently represents Minnesota and earlier this year announced that she won't be seeking reelection in 2026.
After 20 years of hard and rewarding work in the public sector, I'm ready to spend more time with my family.
I wanted to gather these three to get their read on the state of the Senate and our politics and democracy more broadly. So here's my conversation with Senators Flake, Manchin and Smith.
I want to thank you all for being here. It is a great pleasure to have you here on this sort of gray winter day in Washington, D.C.
What do the senators believe about the Senate's role in checking presidential power?
You are all three former or soon to be former senators and you all left at different periods of the last 10 years. And I'm hoping, frankly, that because you are leaving or have left, you will feel a little bit more unleashed in being able to discuss your true feelings and thoughts.
That's why we left.
So I want to start by asking you all to give me a word or a sentence, something brief, that describes the state you think the Senate is in right now. And I want to start with you, Senator Smith, because you are actually sitting in said body.
Mm-hmm.
Senator Flake?
How do the guests view the impact of partisanship on Senate effectiveness?
Probably retreat. You know, in this system, presidency just, by virtue of the system, gains more power over time. But what's been frustrating is to see the Senate just willingly give up Article I authority.
Abdication. They've abdicated basically responsibilities of what their purpose of being there. The Senate is in a most unusual body. in the world. Our framers designed it to be that way, and it was ingrained in me. The filibuster is the only thing. It's the holy grail of keeping us talking and working and becoming friends.
What reforms do the senators suggest for improving Senate functionality?
Jeff being on the Republican side, Tina and I at the time on the Democrat side, but we were all friends because we wanted to get things done, and we knew the Senate was the place to do it, and they've abdicated that type of responsibilities.
I mean, those are all pretty bleak words, I think.
You want us to call them cowards? What do you want us to say, Liz?
I want you to say what you think. Pretty straightforward responses here, it seems. Yeah, those are pretty straightforward responses and not terribly optimistic. Senator Flake, when you left the Senate, you had been serving in Congress for 18 years, first as a representative. In a speech you gave on the floor, you gave this warning, and I'm going to quote here, let us recognize as authoritarianism reasserts itself in country after country that we are by no means immune.
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Chapters
8 chapters
1
What is the current state of the Senate according to former senators?
0:00–0:52
2
How has Trumpism influenced the Republican Party?
0:52–1:32
3
What challenges did Joe Manchin face as an independent senator?
1:32–1:50
4
Why did Tina Smith decide not to seek reelection?
1:50–2:35
5
What do the senators believe about the Senate's role in checking presidential power?
2:35–3:17
6
How do the guests view the impact of partisanship on Senate effectiveness?
3:17–3:50
7
What reforms do the senators suggest for improving Senate functionality?
3:50–4:47
8
How do the guests perceive the future of bipartisan cooperation in Congress?
4:47–41:15
Speakers
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