Chapter 1: What is the current state of the Senate according to former senators?
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From The New York Times, this is The Interview. I'm Lulu Garcia Navarro. Since the founding of our democracy, there's been a separation of powers. The Senate, in particular, was created to act as a stabilizing force with its own important responsibilities.
Chapter 2: How has Trumpism influenced the Republican Party?
But after almost a year of the second Trump presidency, during which time he's pursued an aggressive agenda, the Senate is arguably weaker than ever, with some critics and senators saying it is abandoning its role in checking presidential power. So today I'm having a different kind of conversation than we usually do on the show.
A roundtable about the state of the Senate with three lawmakers who all decided to leave it. Jeff Flake, a Republican, represented Arizona and left office in 2019, warning that the influence of Trumpism on the GOP would be corrosive to his party.
Chapter 3: What challenges did Joe Manchin face as an independent senator?
We must never regard as normal the regular and casual undermining of our democratic norms and ideals.
Joe Manchin represented West Virginia, first as a Democrat who frequently voted with Republicans and later as a registered Independent. He left the Senate at the start of this year.
Chapter 4: Why did Tina Smith decide not to seek reelection?
I was not elected to take a side. I was elected to represent all sides.
And Tina Smith is a Democrat who currently represents Minnesota and earlier this year announced that she won't be seeking reelection in 2026.
After 20 years of hard and rewarding work in the public sector, I'm ready to spend more time with my family.
I wanted to gather these three to get their read on the state of the Senate and our politics and democracy more broadly. So here's my conversation with Senators Flake, Manchin and Smith. I want to thank you all for being here. It is a great pleasure to have you here on this sort of gray winter day in Washington, D.C.
Chapter 5: What do the senators believe about the Senate's role in checking presidential power?
You are all three former or soon to be former senators and you all left at different periods of the last 10 years. And I'm hoping, frankly, that because you are leaving or have left, you will feel a little bit more unleashed in being able to discuss your true feelings and thoughts.
That's why we left.
So I want to start by asking you all to give me a word or a sentence, something brief, that describes the state you think the Senate is in right now. And I want to start with you, Senator Smith, because you are actually sitting in said body.
Mm-hmm.
Senator Flake?
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Chapter 6: How do the guests view the impact of partisanship on Senate effectiveness?
Probably retreat. You know, in this system, presidency just, by virtue of the system, gains more power over time. But what's been frustrating is to see the Senate just willingly give up Article I authority.
Abdication. They've abdicated basically responsibilities of what their purpose of being there. The Senate is in a most unusual body. in the world. Our framers designed it to be that way, and it was ingrained in me. The filibuster is the only thing. It's the holy grail of keeping us talking and working and becoming friends.
Chapter 7: What reforms do the senators suggest for improving Senate functionality?
Jeff being on the Republican side, Tina and I at the time on the Democrat side, but we were all friends because we wanted to get things done, and we knew the Senate was the place to do it, and they've abdicated that type of responsibilities.
I mean, those are all pretty bleak words, I think.
You want us to call them cowards? What do you want us to say, Liz?
I want you to say what you think. Pretty straightforward responses here, it seems. Yeah, those are pretty straightforward responses and not terribly optimistic. Senator Flake, when you left the Senate, you had been serving in Congress for 18 years, first as a representative.
In a speech you gave on the floor, you gave this warning, and I'm going to quote here, let us recognize as authoritarianism reasserts itself in country after country that we are by no means immune. Do you think you were right to be concerned?
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Chapter 8: How do the guests perceive the future of bipartisan cooperation in Congress?
Yes, most definitely. I'm not saying that we're under an authoritarian system now. We're not. But that tendency, and certainly Congress has abdicated its responsibility on a number of areas, whether it's war powers, whether it's tariffs, issues that rightly belong in the Senate. And senators have typically, over time, jealously guarded their prerogative
But they have willingly kind of given that up. And you have a president who is eager to take just about everything he can get. Now, every president, Republican and Democrat, will push some limits somewhere in terms of executive orders. This president is doing that in spades, obviously. But that's why you need a Senate willing to stand up.
And we've seen inklings lately that you might see some of that coming. But, boy, it's been long in coming. And I was concerned then. I'm more concerned today.
Senator Manchin, just before you left the Senate, you turned away from the Democrats. You registered as an independent. And in some of your final words, you called the Democratic brand toxic. Have you seen anything lately that has changed your mind on the direction of the Democratic Party?
Well, first of all, my state's an R40 state. There's not a redder state than mine. And it got to the point where the people in West Virginia, when you have a total working class people coming from the lower echelon of the financial rung, okay, hardworking, poor people, why did they all leave the Democrat Party? It just kind of left them behind.
And really, if you want to know, the underlying motive was that a lot of these people would tell me, they said, Joe, listen, The Washington Democratic Party basically has spent more effort, resources and time for able-bodied, capable people that should be working, that don't work or won't work than those of us who do. And I've had enough.
I can't go home and explain what we're doing as far as the Democratic Party. So people that are still Democrats in my state, I just says, you better make sure they understand you're an independent West Virginia Democrat. Because if you get tagged as a Washington Democrat, you're underwater 15, 20 points before you start.
I mean, that's a warning to the party, for sure.
Well, I try to be as nice as I can. I try to be as truthful as I can because in some states, some blue and really blue areas, they still can survive and still have a strong, you know, New York City and different places like that may be still strong. But I can tell you, if you want to know why you'll never be in the majority again, because you're losing most of the working rural areas.
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