Malcolm Gladwell

I was a fan of John McWhorter long before I met him for the first time. McWhorter is a linguist at Columbia University and a music lover and a New York Times columnist, basically a Renaissance man. It was maybe 2019 when we first spoke. At the time, I was working on something about Tom Bradley, who was mayor of Los Angeles from 1973 to 1993.

And while I listened to old tapes of Bradley, I was struck by something I heard. Listen.

And while I listened to old tapes of Bradley, I was struck by something I heard. Listen.

There is nothing there to hide. I want everybody to know that Tom Bradley's life has been an open book, and this is another demonstration of that.

There is nothing there to hide. I want everybody to know that Tom Bradley's life has been an open book, and this is another demonstration of that.

Tom Bradley is black, born in Texas, grew up in South Central Los Angeles. So I went to see McWhorter, went to his rabbit warren of an office, played him that bit of tape and said, explain this to me. Why does a black guy whose parents were sharecroppers from Texas sound like Cary Grant? And for an hour of the most wonderful conversation, he explained to me exactly why he did.

Tom Bradley is black, born in Texas, grew up in South Central Los Angeles. So I went to see McWhorter, went to his rabbit warren of an office, played him that bit of tape and said, explain this to me. Why does a black guy whose parents were sharecroppers from Texas sound like Cary Grant? And for an hour of the most wonderful conversation, he explained to me exactly why he did.

Fast forward a few years, I was doing our series on the 1936 Olympics, and I got obsessed with Dorothy Thompson, who was one of the most important journalists in the world in the 1930s. And I heard some old tapes of her, and she sounded like she was the Duchess of York, only, do you know where she grew up? Buffalo.

Fast forward a few years, I was doing our series on the 1936 Olympics, and I got obsessed with Dorothy Thompson, who was one of the most important journalists in the world in the 1930s. And I heard some old tapes of her, and she sounded like she was the Duchess of York, only, do you know where she grew up? Buffalo.

So who do I go to see to explain how people from Buffalo end up sounding like English royalty? You guessed it, John McWhorter. My point is that there is a certain kind of question about language, about race, about why we speak the way we speak, for which the only answer is, let's call up John McWhorter. I love John McWhorter.

So who do I go to see to explain how people from Buffalo end up sounding like English royalty? You guessed it, John McWhorter. My point is that there is a certain kind of question about language, about race, about why we speak the way we speak, for which the only answer is, let's call up John McWhorter. I love John McWhorter.

And when he said he had a new book coming out called Pronoun Trouble, I asked him, could I interview you about it? And lucky for me, he said yes. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. This is Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. In this episode, we're going to run the conversation I had with John McWhorter this spring at the 92nd Street Y, which was delightful.

And when he said he had a new book coming out called Pronoun Trouble, I asked him, could I interview you about it? And lucky for me, he said yes. My name is Malcolm Gladwell. This is Revisionist History, my podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. In this episode, we're going to run the conversation I had with John McWhorter this spring at the 92nd Street Y, which was delightful.

I did this interview with John right after finishing up the Joe Rogan episode of Revisionist History. If you listen to it, you'll know that I spent a lot of time talking about how to properly interview someone, how hard it is and how Joe Rogan could learn a lot from someone like Oprah.

I did this interview with John right after finishing up the Joe Rogan episode of Revisionist History. If you listen to it, you'll know that I spent a lot of time talking about how to properly interview someone, how hard it is and how Joe Rogan could learn a lot from someone like Oprah.

And that episode was very much on my mind as I was interviewing the quarter because I was thinking, oh, am I going to measure up? Where do I land on the Oprah-Joe Rogan continuum? I'll let you be the judge of that. Although I will say this is not exactly a fair test. The degree of difficulty with interviewing someone as charming as John McWhorter is very, very low. Hello, everyone.

And that episode was very much on my mind as I was interviewing the quarter because I was thinking, oh, am I going to measure up? Where do I land on the Oprah-Joe Rogan continuum? I'll let you be the judge of that. Although I will say this is not exactly a fair test. The degree of difficulty with interviewing someone as charming as John McWhorter is very, very low. Hello, everyone.

Thanks for coming. John, thank you for... agreeing to join us tonight. Malcolm, thank you for having me. I was thinking back when I first met you, and I think it was I called you up or went to see you because I was doing something on the first... black mayor of Los Angeles, Tom Bradley.

Thanks for coming. John, thank you for... agreeing to join us tonight. Malcolm, thank you for having me. I was thinking back when I first met you, and I think it was I called you up or went to see you because I was doing something on the first... black mayor of Los Angeles, Tom Bradley.

And I was listening to tapes of him speaking, and he sounded like the whitest guy I could imagine.