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Margaret Atwood

👤 Person
274 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

No, no, no, you can't possibly be. It was going to be the end of history. Capitalism had triumphed. Shopping was the future. It was just all going to be great. That ended in 9-11. That was the end of that particular phase. And there was another potential penguin joker to America's Batman, but it was kind of hard to coalesce that, especially if you were really rather dependent on Saudi Arabia.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

No, no, no, you can't possibly be. It was going to be the end of history. Capitalism had triumphed. Shopping was the future. It was just all going to be great. That ended in 9-11. That was the end of that particular phase. And there was another potential penguin joker to America's Batman, but it was kind of hard to coalesce that, especially if you were really rather dependent on Saudi Arabia.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

So we're now shaping up to another one, which appears to be Putin about to invade Ukraine. And who knows what is going to happen there. But America, meanwhile, has been examining the underside of the myth, if you like. So equality for whom exactly was the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? Were those going to be for everybody? Apparently not.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

So we're now shaping up to another one, which appears to be Putin about to invade Ukraine. And who knows what is going to happen there. But America, meanwhile, has been examining the underside of the myth, if you like. So equality for whom exactly was the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? Were those going to be for everybody? Apparently not.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

Not at the beginning, but once you've started with that idea, it's kind of hard to stop it. And despite the setbacks, I think you have seen the franchise extending further and further. What you're seeing right now is an attempt to roll some of that back with the discouraging of voting for certain groups and a certain amount of historical revisionism. Well, we never actually meant equality.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

Not at the beginning, but once you've started with that idea, it's kind of hard to stop it. And despite the setbacks, I think you have seen the franchise extending further and further. What you're seeing right now is an attempt to roll some of that back with the discouraging of voting for certain groups and a certain amount of historical revisionism. Well, we never actually meant equality.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

We meant... Something more like the Roman Republic in which it was only men and not slaves, women, or children that were supposed to be citizens.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

We meant... Something more like the Roman Republic in which it was only men and not slaves, women, or children that were supposed to be citizens.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

Well, that would be tragic because the result would be another civil war. And there are no wars worse than civil wars. They're actually the worst wars. And that has been a motif actually throughout American history, that there were righteous people and that there were not righteous people. So the founding, going back to the original founding amongst the Puritans, that wasn't a democracy.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

Well, that would be tragic because the result would be another civil war. And there are no wars worse than civil wars. They're actually the worst wars. And that has been a motif actually throughout American history, that there were righteous people and that there were not righteous people. So the founding, going back to the original founding amongst the Puritans, that wasn't a democracy.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

It was a theocracy. And only those who'd seen God in a cornfield were full members of the church to begin with. Then, as usually happens with fervent utopian movements, which it was one, you have the first generation who were the fervent utopianists, let's say the original French revolutionaries, the original Bolsheviks. And then you win. And then what do you do when you win?

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

It was a theocracy. And only those who'd seen God in a cornfield were full members of the church to begin with. Then, as usually happens with fervent utopian movements, which it was one, you have the first generation who were the fervent utopianists, let's say the original French revolutionaries, the original Bolsheviks. And then you win. And then what do you do when you win?

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

What's supposed to happen is the golden age is supposed to appear. Then it doesn't appear. Then what? Well, you've won and you've eliminated your enemies, your original enemies, but it's still not working. So it must be betrayal from within. It must be witches. It must be capitalist rotors.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

What's supposed to happen is the golden age is supposed to appear. Then it doesn't appear. Then what? Well, you've won and you've eliminated your enemies, your original enemies, but it's still not working. So it must be betrayal from within. It must be witches. It must be capitalist rotors.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

It must be somebody undermining it, secret monarchists in the case of the revolution, enemies of the revolution. It must be them from within your own country. So what you're seeing now is a wrestling match for what is the real America? What is the authentic America? And you see people wrapping themselves in the flag both ways and saying that they are the real America.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

It must be somebody undermining it, secret monarchists in the case of the revolution, enemies of the revolution. It must be them from within your own country. So what you're seeing now is a wrestling match for what is the real America? What is the authentic America? And you see people wrapping themselves in the flag both ways and saying that they are the real America.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

And you just saw that in Canada. So these people at the blockades wrapping themselves in the Canadian flag, we're standing up for the real Canada. pretty fuzzy about what that is. But that's what they were doing, and their role model was what had been going on in the States, where we're overthrowing the government in the name of the real America, like that. Did you ever play arm wrestling?

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

And you just saw that in Canada. So these people at the blockades wrapping themselves in the Canadian flag, we're standing up for the real Canada. pretty fuzzy about what that is. But that's what they were doing, and their role model was what had been going on in the States, where we're overthrowing the government in the name of the real America, like that. Did you ever play arm wrestling?

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

So that's what you're seeing. It's an arm wrestle for the soul of America.

The Ezra Klein Show
Best Of: Margaret Atwood on American Myths and Authoritarianism

So that's what you're seeing. It's an arm wrestle for the soul of America.