Mariana Mazzucato

in Chile, they are going now to work in these companies.

And that hemorrhaging of talent, of top research expertise, I don't think people are talking about this enough.

It literally is the biggest change, right?

Because otherwise, just the fact that we've had big technological changes, general purpose technology is completely affecting how we produce, how we distribute.

from the rise of electrification and so on.

So it's very hard to govern a process for good ethically and so on if you don't understand it.

So if this talent is, in fact, leaving these publicly financed institutions, even private universities, most of the research, as you know, has been funded by NSF and so on.

Once they leave and the knowledge is so concentrated in these few AI companies, I don't think we've thought about that enough.

But sorry, just the other thing, just coming back to your question, which I don't think I answered properly.

Yes, of course, government should be thinking because of its, at least a democratically elected government, right?

This is different for dictatorships, what we would expect from them.

But we would expect governments to make sure that any big change, large kind of opportunities around technological change are done in ways that are, again, good for people and planet, right?

But that requires not only that capacity that, as I mentioned, is being decimated, but also a certain type of regulation, which is making sure we even understand the process of

of, for example, how algorithms are currently being designed and whether we have a situation like Shoshana Zuboff in her great book Surveillance Capitalism, she says, you think you're searching Google for free, they're searching you for free.

That could have been avoided through the design of the algorithms.

And given that the algorithms, initially at least, were publicly financed, there is this issue of how do we, in a pre-distributive way, instead of kind of exposed with redistribution or regulation or market fixing, think about innovation collaborations

that have some of these really important ethical concerns thought about upfront.

And an example of this would be during COVID, where the vaccines were not the mission.

The mission was to allow these vaccines to be produced and available globally, given it was a global health pandemic.

We were all better off if the world was vaccinated.