Mariana Mazzucato

Right.

Well, it actually comes back also to that previous point.

Do you need all that expertise inside?

Or also, how do you regulate this in such a way that also stimulates more innovation?

Because you don't want to

put a cap on the innovation just by over-regulating it.

This is where, by the way, I disagree with the abundance theorem, which makes it sound like, you know, there's all these opportunities out there and it was regulation and too much planning and too many conditions that kind of hurt that, which I think actually corporate governance and shareholder value maximization has really actually stifled the opportunities that we have today.

So they don't have to, of

But they do need to do exactly as you said, like we do with climate, right, where there's climate disclosures.

We need to know what it is that we want to be disclosed.

In fact, we have a project that we just did, that we just finished with, do you know Tim O'Reilly?

Yeah.

So it was Tim and myself with a grant from the Amiriyar Foundation, a project we called Algorithmic Rents, and how to reduce these rents and how we're designing algorithms also through disclosures.

So we thought about what would be the equivalent of AI related disclosures that could do exactly, as you said, be almost the equivalent of what banks now have to do, but also companies have to do around kind of ESG kind of metrics.

And so, I mean, the project is still underway.

And what we want is actually to find kind of a coalition of AI companies that would be willing to think about this with us.

But that assumes, right, that there's also enough of the science as there has been with climate change.

which said, this is an urgent problem.

And unless we fix it now, we're going to reach a tipping point where there's no coming back.

That's really when things started to change around the climate disclosures.