Mariana Mazzucato

We haven't, for some reason, reached that yet.

Even though there's such a link also, by the way, between AI and climate, like in terms of these data centers guzzling, you know, like for every, you know, chat GPT search you do, apparently it's like using a bottle of water, like the small plastic bottles of water.

Like that's literally how much we're using.

And yet-

You know, we're not making that kind of systemic understanding of, you know, AI problems and how they are connected to climate and water problems and so on.

And that requires, again, government not just having an indicator like GDP to think about, but a dashboard, right?

When you're driving your car, if you had one number.

you know, how much gas you have or how fast you're going, you would crash it.

So what does a dashboard look like, you know, for government that would allow it to make sure it's on track to making sure that also with the evolution of technology, it's thinking about these kind of more systemic features and not just thinking about it as innovation policy.

I think it definitely fits with the kind of characteristics of a general purpose technology in the sense that it really does kind of change everything.

However, there's also a lot of kind of myths around that, kind of a bubble in terms of how we're thinking, not only in terms of the financial market bubble around it, but, you know, just like with electricity, it took about 30 years for it to actually really affect people.

how governments were operating.

Similarly with the internet, you'll remember when Robert Solow was saying, you know, there's computers everywhere except in the productivity statistics.

I think we're still very early in the phase with AI in terms of it having a really meaningful impact on improving.

Again, coming back to the point about problems, right?

This ultimately should be helping us solve problems.

Which problems is AI really helping us to solve in a systemic way that can scale and that there's learning between governments?

We're definitely using AI.

Is it actually helping us solve some of the biggest problems of our time?

Again, health problems, climate problems.