Mariana Mazzucato

So it's also about where we're putting kind of the emphasis.

And for that, I think we do need these moonshots, government-led, working with the private sector, and again, using the power of AI well-regulated to solve very concrete problems.

Do you know that Ada Colau, who was the mayor of Barcelona, another city here in Spain that you know well, when she was mayor, she came from a housing movement.

So she was really, really concerned with housing issues, but also, you know, public transport, public schools and so on.

And her thing was, why is it that when the citizens of Barcelona, you know, like click on Uber or CityMapper, this data that's created from that, right?

Because every time we click on something, data is created.

She said, why aren't we in the city using that data to improve our decisions and understanding of our public transport and public housing challenges?

And so she ended up hiring computer hackers into the city government and made it a really cool place to work.

And I think that, again, kind of insourcing back in those kind of, you know, cool hackers that currently are working in these companies, but to come and work with the city administration.

that says, we want you to come in, fail, but help, you know, like, don't worry about failing, sorry, not fail, but, you know, take risks to help us though, kind of really target our big, you know, challenges around housing, transport, and so on, inequality in terms of access.

strengthening government.

So the first time I started to work on missions wasn't on mission-oriented policy.

It was on mission-oriented organizations, right?

To better understand the DARPA kind of organization, right?

Corfo in Chile is similar.

Citra in Finland.

MindLab in Denmark.

Lenovo in Sweden.

These are innovation agencies that are, in fact, making these big bets that are mission-oriented.

But my question was, how are they organized?