Mariana Mazzucato

Are they also unstable due to the electoral cycle?

And they have thought about this.

I mean, it's not a coincidence that DARPA, for example, people come in for five years.

So it's not the four year electoral cycle.

They're actually told, come in and do take risks.

That's how you'll be evaluated, you know, not by just if you're succeeding all the time, that means you're not taking those risks, but also the impact that your successes have.

And so that kind of cultural shift, but also the fact that

people are coming in kind of on secondment.

You know, they're not there to be a civil service, civil servant their whole life.

So we started studying.

Well, for some areas, I think that's fine, especially around innovation, right?

You want to, coming back to the idea that we want to bring in and crowd in the top talent into government, you know, having like a five-year period that you're going to help as a civil servant paid by the government, not as a consultant, you know, working with, not at the civil service.

I do think there's lots of kind of room for that.

So that idea that because we value the private sector, there has been, for example, think of Harvard Business School where they have this case study methodology of businesses.

We've never really done that with government entities because we don't value basically government as a value creator.

It's just seen as a redistributor, a fixer, a facilitator, an enabler of the private sector.

And that's, of course, where then we expect creativity and value to be created, which is not right.

And so one of the things that we do in the Institute, which is actually a department, so we train up civil servants around the world, also through our own MPA, Masters in Public Administration, but also through applied learning programs, was to start developing these cases.

You know, what do we know about the BBC?

You know, how is it different from other public broadcasters?