Mariano Suarez-Battan

Yes, because as you can imagine, with those firms, it starts to grow.

The issue that we have as a business, and this is for other entrepreneurs selling to multiple departments, is who pays for the collaboration.

The units, when it's not IT that does the thing.

So, for example...

We sell to innovation groups, right, or design and product development groups.

So they start collaborating.

The nature of the collaboration that they do in Mural has to be radically collaborative, right?

They need to bring in people from support, people from engineering, people from business, people from marketing, people from design and product, of course.

So they started using the product, but then these people come in and they report to other VPs, so they come from other budget.

So that's one of the frictions that we're having as a business to understand how do we break that barrier

That situation where budget allocation is not advantageous.

No, no, it's fine.

It's high.

Inconclusive, you know what, because for example, we landed a pretty big industrial technology firm.

Probably that one that you're imagining.

And it came because, I mean, they did a global design sprint that was supported and now they're deploying the product.

We met them at an event in a design management event in September.

Yeah, we sponsored it.

Probably around the total thing, because not just the sponsorship cost, but travel and so forth, probably around 30 grand.

Yes, but we also met someone else in Austin and in the middle we did some work also and so on.