Mark Agnon
Appearances
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
What was the reaction from the Senate committee when you gave your testimony?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, of course. And then also I think this idea that evil people are evil all the time. I think there is a perception that the pedophile or the abuser is this guy with a creepy mustache in your window and he's got a trench coat. That's not the case. These people, like you mentioned, are evil. upstanding of their society. They're well-liked. They have people around them. They have community.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And how did it feel to be now praying and just to be free?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I mean, the story has so much, it's crazy that it's real life.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
But the duality is so interesting. You have this evil cop who abuses you. But then you have this great cop that gives you another chance at life and tells you to plead the fifth and gets you a lawyer. And you have these, you know, evil priests that, you know, abuse people like people, you know, your family and, you know, different people in the world.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then you have these, you know, good religious figures that, you know, put you on a spiritual path. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Thank you so much for coming all the way from Westchester.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now, if that confrontation with Dennis Peck had gone differently and you actually just confronted him, like in the event that you could have gone back, what would you have said to him? What would you have wanted to know?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And he uses this tactic with you and slowly finds a gap to kind of lower your, you know, your guard and then exploit this thing that happened to you in a way to create contact and keep a secret.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It's like a psychopathy. I mean, they're truly.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. So I guess to conclude, if you have young kids... be aware of who they're spending time with, create an open platform of communication where there's no secrets being held. They can come to you and that you're open and communicative.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I split his throat. This is Clark Fredericks. He's an advocate, an author, and the most badass Boy Scout of all time. He became known as the man who stabbed and killed his childhood abuser. He writes that from 8 to 12, he and several others were sexually and psychologically abused by their Boy Scout leader and sheriff's officer, Dennis Pegg. But this story isn't one of vengeance.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You gotta talk to them. If you see them rebelling or using substances at a young age, it's possible that can be a cry for help and be open, listen.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Right. So see that as an opportunity to speak to them and be open and listen.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now, if someone's listening to this that's, you know, 20 years old and had, you know, sexual trauma and never told anyone, just like yourself, what should they do?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now, there's one person that we didn't talk about.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And it was this girl that you knew in college that was the love of your life that you weren't ready to have intimacy with. You weren't ready to settle down with. Yeah. So you pursued a different path. Yeah, yeah. Whatever happened to her? Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I mean, truly a remarkable story. Thank you so much for coming in and sharing it with me. I mean, every which way, I mean, redemptive, sad, unfair, and, you know, ultimately I think really profound in a lot of ways and poetic beyond, I mean, reality. It's, it's truly crazy. This is not just a movie that it's actually something that you lived through and, uh, you know, for better, for worse. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, thank you so much for doing the show. I appreciate the insights. And yeah, I think the audience will be moved by the story and maybe there's some people that we helped out today. Awesome. Thank you so much. Let's do it again. Thanks, brother. Thank you, bro. Appreciate it, man. What's up, people? Quick announcement.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
If you are a fan of Camp Gagnon or Religion Camp, I have great news because we are dropping History Camp. That's right. This is the channel we're going to be exploring the most interesting, fascinating, controversial topics from all time throughout all history. Right. You probably know about Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Nikola Tesla, interesting figures from history.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And you probably learned about a school and they were pretty boring, but not here. No. As you know, I was raised by a conspiracy theorist, so I'm going to be diving deep into all of the interesting, strange, occult, and secretive societal relationships that all of these famous influential men from our shared past have. So if you're interested, please go ahead and subscribe to the YouTube channel.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It will be pinned in the description as well as the comments. And if you're on Spotify, this doesn't really apply to you, but these episodes will be dropping as well. Just go ahead and give us a high rating because it really helps the show.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I'm really, really excited to talk for a few reasons, but I also just want to put a disclaimer to anyone that's listening that this episode might be, at moments, a little heavier than some of the other episodes we've done.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So what happens from that moment and how do things sort of progress with Dennis?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
But I think it's good and I think it's productive, but I just want to throw that out there if there's anyone listening that maybe has had experience with sexual abuse or trauma that, you know, to proceed with caution. But I think that the conversation we're going to have is important for a few reasons.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
One, I think there are a lot of people that have dealt with sexual abuse that don't know how to cope with it, don't even realize that it happened. They have no idea that the behavior that they're doing in their adult life is a reflection of what happened to them in their childhood. They kind of think that's compartmentalized.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And you need to stay useful. Yeah. Or else something bad will happen. Right.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And what did you think as a nine-year-old seeing, like, these, you know, innocent fish? I mean, yeah, it's a fish. But seeing them get killed, I mean, what was the feeling?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now, at this point, you know, you have known him for, you know, three-ish years. His standing within the community was still solid. He had a good reputation. There's no rumors about his behavior up until this point.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And secondly, I think it's important for parents and people with kids to know what this looks like and how psychopaths and pedophiles can manipulate children and young teens into doing things that they normally wouldn't do. And like I mentioned before, myself being the father now of an eight month old. I think about this kind of stuff all the time now, which is terrifying.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And if you went home to your parents that night and they were like, oh, what'd you do today? Would you ever mention like, oh, I was with Officer Pegg?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And they would say, oh, okay. Oh, good, good, good.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And in these, like, wrestling matches, I mean, you can call them that. It's abuse. But when you leave them, did you feel like you were abused? Did you feel violated in a way? Or did you think, like, oh, that was sort of an awkward, strange thing?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So you were still able to operate in daily life without this baggage necessarily on your sort of your primary conscience.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Just like, you know, one day he's going to want to go on a sleepover or one day he's going to want to do, you know, like a sleepaway thing with the Boy Scouts or want to go with the church group or want to do something that I'm not there. And that brings me a lot of anxiety.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
male male and male behavior but also conflating terminology here to try to make it seem as though your relationship is gay rather than pedophilic right like he's using manipulative language to make it seem like oh yeah what we're just two guys doing stuff right which is again another manipulative tactic like you know like be gay that's fine but being gay and going after little boys is
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I think through our conversation and through the book that you wrote, Scarred, you lay out a lot of sort of the manipulation tactics that Abusers will use to coerce their victims and the survivors of those abuses. So I guess just to start from the very beginning, can you just explain sort of where you grew up and kind of the town and the lay of the land in the spot where you were?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Right, which is- That's a totally different thing. And he's intentionally manipulating this language to put a label in your mind where you're like, oh, this is not pedophilic maybe. He's trying to test you and prime you in that way, which again is just further manipulation. And so at this point, he's now done this overt sexual act with you showing you pornography.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
The feeling you have when you leave that encounter I'm sure it's probably a little bit.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
What the hell? Yeah, so. And so, do you ever speak to anyone about these encounters specifically? Do you ever talk to your brother about it? No, no. Does your brother ever talk about this guy to you? Does he ever say like, oh, I see you're hanging out with Lieutenant Dennis or whatever. Does he ever have?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And at this point, still no rumors in the town. Everything's fine with this guy.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because your food sucks. That's right. We live in a country where unfortunately a lot of the food we eat, even if you try to eat clean, is pesticides and seed oils and who knows what else is in your, you know, your Caesar wrap. And that is why it is important to supplement your food.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This is what I do on a daily basis and I do it with Symbiotica. Yes, I love Symbiotica because it is the easiest way for me to supplement my food and get all the nutrients that I need that I should be getting for my food. But unfortunately, I don't because, you know, the world and capitalism or whatever. But with Symbiotica, I'm able to get my magnesium, which I take every single night.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That helps me to sleep. I take my colostrum, which is great for my gut health. It helps my skin and it gives me an immune boost. And the thing that I'm most excited about is mineral Shilajit. Shilajit is an ancient mineral resin that literally comes from the Himalayas. It sounds crazy, but it's not. It's right here in this little jar, just a little dab into some warm water.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And since I've been taking it, I mean, it's full of like fulvic acid, you know, trace minerals, all the stuff you should be getting from your food, but you're not. And since I've been taking it, I feel sharper. My energy is more consistent and stable. I'm not reaching for the third coffee. Instead, the Shilajit keeps me locked in.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Another thing I love about Symbiotica is that instead of taking a handful of pills and people look at you like a crazy person, they actually get curious. They see you taking this awesome little liquid gel pack that tastes amazing and they go, oh, what is that? What are you taking right there? And I tell them I'm taking my Symbiotica for my health because I'm trying to live until I'm 180 years old.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So if you're interested in reclaiming your health for the summer, feeling better, having more stable energy and doing it in the tastiest way possible, go to symbiotica.com slash camp. Use the promo code camp and you will get 20% off your order and free shipping if you go to symbiotica.com slash camp or click on the description. You'll see the links right there or even in the bottom of this banner.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're gonna take a break really quick because you own a small business or maybe you work for a small business and I am about to make your life so much easier. Let's say, hypothetically, you own a little, you know, furniture business, right?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
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Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So now if you have a small business, you can monitor the inventory in real time, schedule production calls more effectively, and you can send invoices automatically all from one platform. Plus, you get a customized CRM to track sales leads and follow up with potential clients, boosting your closing rates.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Back in the day, you'd probably have to get, you know, some, you know, Ivy League operator, business person that's, you know, able to make everything happen for you. But now with Odoo, it cuts it all out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I'm sure you're thinking, okay, if this is going to make my life easier, give me more free time to spend with my friends, family, and playing softball, and make me more money, it must be crazy expensive. This is the good news. Listeners of this program are going to get a 14 day free trial. That's right. You get two weeks with Odoo completely for free when you go to Odoo.com slash camp.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That's right. Odoo.com. Use the promo code camp and you will get 14 days for free just to try it out. See if you like it. If it's not for you, you don't need it. All right. But Odoo is going to make your life so much easier. Everything you need all in one place. Save time. Make more money. Let's get back to the show. How different is life before and after the incident?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I did everything right. And this is how I get repaid.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then as far as school goes, relationships with friends.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Did you have other coping mechanisms immediately after the event? So you mentioned the dirt bike, but were there other, like, was music or anything else? Just weed and...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And what was it? Was that a general apathy towards life?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Looking back, would you say you were depressed?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And what was your family dynamic like? Like, what did your parents do? What were your siblings doing?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And you can't help but wonder if even like the psychological effects, even like the sunfish moment of like, this is what happens if you're if you're worthless. And even just that tape playing in your head to other adults, like I'm not going to be worthless. I'm going to be a good kid that does good things. And, you know, I'm going to be friendly and be accepted by the group.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that that will protect me. And that will make sure nothing like this happens again. And the constant battle to put that on every single day. Yeah. It must be draining.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And drugs and alcohol are a great escape for that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, of course. So you get access to weed and you're smoking regularly. Yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And is the feeling fear of retribution from Dennis?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It's a story of redemption. Clark will tell us about his childhood trauma. He will also explain how to keep your kids safe from abusers. And if you yourself have childhood trauma, how to deal with it and cope in a healthy way that doesn't lead you down the same destructive path that Clark has followed.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So if you could just get rid of the damaged one. Yeah. And, you know, we can move on.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now, it seems like your dad, unfortunately, was doing the right thing. Like, I don't think his actions were negligent necessarily. They just might have been sort of misguided in the way that he put pressure on you in that moment. So I'm curious, like, if you had advice for parents that maybe are dealing with a kid that had experienced a predator like this, what should they say instead?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Do you think asking a kid straight up, like, hey, has this person touched you? Is that adequate questioning in the work that you've done with other abuse survivors? Or should it be phrased in a different way?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I wonder if art could be a helpful sort of conduit for conversation for kids in this regard, like taking them through like an essay, like the way you did or, you know, drawing or painting.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, yeah, I can see why these channels for kids are so important to have space for them to open up honestly, and not without the coercion or the pressure. You know, you take a kid down to a police station, the fear of, oh, am I going to do something wrong? Am I going to put my parents in jail?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I put my keys on the hood still or I'll put them on the roof. I remember talking to people being like, why do you do that? I was in a very white suburb of Florida and I was like, oof, I don't want to mess around. So I couldn't imagine being a kid and having this happen. It's something I think about with childhood trauma in general, outside of even just sexual trauma, but just all trauma.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I'm curious if this sort of resonated for you, but I've heard that when children are traumatized, specifically by people that they trust, They don't have the emotional apparatus to look at their abuser or their traumatizer and say like, oh, that's a bad person. Instead, they hold the esteem of that person that did it. And they say, I must be a bad person.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I must be someone that's worth treating poorly. And as a result, they create this real negative sense of self. And if their parents are abusive, they say, my parents are good. I'm bad, which is why I'm being treated this way. Instead of having the emotional maturity to say, no, they are.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
broken in this moment or they're doing something wrong to an innocent kid and that they hold on and sort of internalize all the pain that has happened to them and I imagine it's probably similar in your case that this thing happens from someone you trust and the rest of your teen years you just go I'm bad I am you know I'm worthless and this thing that happened to me is you know my fault and just suppressing all of those emotions the self-hatred and the self-loathing just like is just like building an enormous you know
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So in that moment when you're saying no... you don't have a cognizant feeling of like, oh, because of my trauma and the baggage that I'm dealing with, I'm unable to have intimacy. The feeling in your brain is just on fire. Like, hey, connection is dangerous. I can't let this person get close.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So basically from graduation, for the next 20 years of your life, is marred with...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And what would sitting with that discomfort bring up?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Is that that suffocating feeling you mentioned before?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And you were holding a job at that point as well.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And what is that? What is the nature of getting a job, doing it for a few years, excelling, and then letting it go?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You're going to be a partner in this thing and you'll work in Wall Street and you'll be tied to this and then you'll get your retirement and your pension 20 years later. And you're like, no. Yeah, I don't think so. I'm not thinking about being tied to anything.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Right. Because anything that was some type of long-term intimacy, even if it was professional intimacy, was still too much to handle.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Did that seem out of the question at that point?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That this pain will build up over time and that will be the only way out.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then these later traumatic events, again, they're traumatic in their own right, but they're also bringing up these triggers for you and bringing up these other feelings.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And at any point in the wake of that, did you consider, oh, is this something that is worth talking about? That this might be something that happened to him? Did it tickle in the back of your head?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
How did Jeff's death affect your brother? Um...
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now, at this point, in your 20s and your 30s, you'd never seen Dennis again.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I mean, it's strange how even just the sight of someone can trigger those feelings internally, like your blood running cold, your heart starts to beat, like, you know, that sensation just from the proximity to the person that caused this. And I'm sure that's probably what you felt, that feeling of like just a full body rush, anger, all those feelings flooding back in one moment.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
One of the things that you mentioned in another interview that in your late teens, you got into like pyro and like lighting fires.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now, I've heard this to be the case amongst people with different types of trauma that fire becomes sort of a, I don't know, like some type of hobby or some type of thing to sort of like work through anger or resentment. I don't know if through your therapy.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Sure. But for you as a kid when you were doing it, was there any type of feeling where you were like, oh, this is, I mean, because I think kids sort of play with fire in general, like fireworks and stuff. But I mean, maybe to the nature that you were doing, like lighting a house on fire is maybe a different level.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
But I'm curious when it was happening, was there any type of conscious thought like, oh, this feels good to see these things like burning?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Of a dangerous thing. Yeah. Yeah. And then maybe shoplifting is kind of like this sort of rush and it's something that's bad, but you're in control once again. Yep. Hmm. Yeah. What's up guys. We're going to take a break really quick because you are a grown child. Yes. You're a giant man child and you just love stuff in your face and all the sugary cereals.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
The eight, when you were a kid, when you were just a fat little eight year old, you would sit down on your couch and you would just eat these, these sugary cereals. And nowadays you try to do that. Like I have, you feel terrible. You go, Oh yeah, my blood pressure. is rising. I do get a hangover from eating these cereals that I ate when I was a child.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that's why I want to talk to you about Magic Spoon. This thing right here, freshly opened because I was just engorging myself. Magic Spoon is all the flavors that you love that come from your favorite nostalgic cereals, flavors like fruity, cocoa, frosted. Do those sound familiar to you? Because legally, I can't say what they are, but those are the flavors that Magic Spoon has.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And here's what's amazing about Magic Spoon. It's the same taste. It's all the flavor packed into every bite from those childhood cereals, but 13 grams of protein, zero grams of sugar, and four grams of net carbs. Yeah, imagine that. 13 grams of protein. This is protein-packed cereal.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So instead of being a little fat kid, you can sit down on Sunday morning, watch your cartoons, and get freaking jacked. Yeah. You'll look like Ronnie Coleman or something. You keep on crushing these, you're gonna be diesel as hell. So instead of being a little fat boy, you can be a giant strong man, but still keep your same habits of just sitting down and watching your cartoons.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And for the listeners of this program, if you go to magicspoon.com slash camp, that's right, magicspoon.com slash C-A-M-P, you're gonna get $5 off your next order. Five whole dollars that you can save. And apply to therapy for figuring out your disgusting twisted childhood of stuffing your face with processed sugars and red dye 40 and stuff like that.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, guys like this are strategic and meticulous. This is not a happenstance thing. This is a lifestyle built around this type of abuse and exploitation.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
But with Magic Spoon, you don't have to worry about any of that stuff. It's all good. 13 grams of protein. None of the sugar. 4 grams of carbs. Get it today. Magic Spoon on Amazon or at your nearest grocery store. Or you can go to magicspoon.com slash camp C-A-M-P for $5 off. Now let's get back to the show, you fatty. What's up, guys? We need to talk skincare. That's right.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
If you've ever heard me on Flagrant or even on this show, I have talked about my love for beef tallow. Yes, I'm not talking about some, you know, lab-made sludge with 39 syllables and a... a bunch of chemicals and stuff. I'm talking about good old-fashioned beef tallow. Just, yes, it's cow fat. I know, it sounds crazy, but there's a reason that people have used this for thousands of years.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This is the moisturizer that your ancestors used before, you know, big lotion and chemicals and pharma companies came and messed it all up with seed oil scams and chemical cocktails, all right? Tallow has been used for thousands of years. The ancient Egyptians walking through the desert, they put on beef tallow to make their skin beautiful.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
look good and feel good and not crack and actually hold up in the elements. Greeks and Romans, they used it to heal wounds and keep their skin from looking, you know, like papyrus. And even your great, great grandma, she probably used it. I don't know. And here's the great thing with beef tallow.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
It's got a bunch of, you know, fat soluble, you know, vitamins A, D, E, and K. And it actually mimics your skin's natural oils because it comes from a living thing. That means your body recognizes and says, Oh, yeah, this is good stuff. And you don't have some crazy reaction. And you know, not like the $90 serums that smell like eucalyptus or whatever.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I use it, my wife steals it, my baby uses it, everyone in the family looks good and feels good with the power of beef tallow. So right before bed, I literally just take like a little finger full, wipe it in my hands and rub it on My face and you kind of spread it in evenly. It comes in a bunch of great flavors. It smells amazing. And when I wake up, I feel moisturized and refreshed.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And if you're interested, you can go now and get the best beef tallow on the market. I'll be honest. All beef tallow is basically the same. You know, it all is great stuff. It's all very natural. This one is natural, just like the rest. But this one is 30% off. when you go to Evil Goods. That's right. When you go to Evil Goods, you subscribe.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Just click the link at the top of the video description or go to evilgoods.com slash camp. Do it for your skin. Do it for the cow. Do it for your ancestors. All right, let's get back to the show. And so fast forwarding back into your late 20s and 30s, drugs come into the play a little bit more.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, it's absurd. Yeah, it's crazy. And as we progress into the story, again, I mentioned this before, but if at any point you want to take a break or you don't want to proceed with specific details, like by all means, you can just flag it. But at what age did you meet Dennis Pegg?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And you mentioned the boundary thing, which I found very interesting, like how trauma can sort of take away your boundaries, even though you think you have them.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And up until that point, would you describe your childhood as peaceful?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This is how my life got away from me. What happens with this gambling debt? How do you resolve this?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Well, that period from, I mean, that must've been triggering so much.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And I mean, they're using fear as a coercion tactic and you can't tell anyone and we're, we're going to come get you. Like it's all the same playbook.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, it's an interesting feeling. I've heard people say that before. That's not the desire to die. It's just not caring if you live or don't.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And like the drugs and riding fast bikes and, you know, all of this is kind of the same feeling of like, who gives a shit? Who cares?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This episode is absolutely amazing and Clark is a true survivor. This is a topic that not many people talk about and a lot of men like to push down. But Clark has been brave enough to share his story, everything he's learned from his healing experience.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
The pain is building and the anger is building. And at this point, by the time you're 40, you're now 30 years away from that sort of initial traumatic incident.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
How often are you thinking about that incident?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, why not? Thank you, sir. Yeah. How often are you thinking about that incident specifically? Is it coming up weekly?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You still remembered where it was. Like you could just.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
If you wanted to take a different course of action, of course, sharing the pain earlier, telling your dad when he asked and coming forth with that and maybe getting professional help in your childhood, all of those things would have certainly helped. But in the event that you hadn't done any of those things and the only thing you could change was driving up to that house.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
What would you have done differently? Would you have gone to law enforcement? Could the law even carry out a case against this guy? What could you have done?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So what comes from the rest of his life? I mean, you know, he's continues to be in the police force.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I mean, it just seems like such an insane coverup. I mean, I don't know what else to call it. You have a hundred plus victims over 50 years.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I don't know if it's, it seems like too many cases to be negligent.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So now immediately after the event where you two confront each other.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You're holding a knife. Is it true it was the knife? It was like a scouting knife? He gave me that knife.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So the knife that he taught you how to sharpen.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
There's something poetic about that. There is something poetic. To kill him with the knife he taught you how to sharpen. So now you're standing in his home, the same home that you were then, and he's dead.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And what is the immediate feeling that you have?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So what is your plan at this point? You need to get medical attention for your hand. Do you just leave? What happens immediately after?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
to meditation, to his spirituality and his relationship with God, and ultimately how he's a better person today and an advocate for children that have suffered abuse at the hands of the powerful within their community. So sit back, relax, and welcome to camp. Clark Fredericks, thanks so much for being here. Mark Agnon, nice to be here, bro.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I got to tell you about a dirty little secret, okay? The insurance industry doesn't want you to know this. Well, basically what the insurance companies do is that they profit by holding onto your money as long as possible.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You pay them every month, and then eventually when an accident happens, they try to deny or delay your claim so that they can keep their profits going. I mean, it goes even worse when in court the insurance companies want jurors to think that the at-fault driver, you know, a mom that rear-ends someone, you know, she's a single mom, and they think that she is going to be paying the verdict amount.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Meanwhile, it's really the insurance companies who are going to be covering the costs. And that's what I want to tell you about the good folks over at Morgan & Morgan, because they will take on the case, and they are almost always going after the big insurance companies and not the individuals at fault.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Morgan & Morgan fights hard for their clients, and these corporations know that, and it pisses them off. A recent client in Pennsylvania just received $29 million. The insurer's best offer? $500,000. Yeah. There's another client in Florida that received $20 million, and the last offer from the insurance company was $0. There's a reason why Morgan & Morgan is America's largest injury law firm.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So if you are ever injured or dealing with an insurance company that doesn't want to pay up their fair share, you could go check out Morgan & Morgan. That's right. Hiring the wrong law firm can be disastrous. And hiring the right law firm could, you know, be a big substantial increase to your settlement. And Morgan & Morgan makes it so easy to get started. Their fee is free unless they win.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah, it's just, especially for a kid, it is so, you know, the world is so fragile and so sort of nebulous that the idea of a secret and someone you trust telling you that if you break this secret, everything else will be ruined.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
There's literally no risk. Unless they win your case, you're not paying a dime. And with Morgan & Morgan, it's never been easier. I'm telling you. You just go to ForThePeople.com. That's right. ForThePeople.com. And use the code Gagnon, G-A-G-N-O-N, or dial pound law. That's pound 529. That's forthepeople.com slash Gagnon or dial pound law. That's pound 529. And this is a paid advertisement.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Now, ladies and gentlemen, let's get back to the show. What's up, guys? We're going to take a break really quick because I'm sitting here in my beautiful tent, as you can see, every week, day in, day out. And people always ask, they say, Mark, how do I have a tent like that? I want to sit in a beautiful tent and invite a lover, a friend, you know, someone that I appreciate and adore.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I want to give them a good time inside my tent. Well, it's easy. Thanks to the good folks over at bluechew.com. That's right. Blue Chew is the original OG brand offering chewable tablets. And what do these tablets do? Oh, I'm glad you asked. They are going to give you just a stronger, harder, and longer-lasting sexual performance. That's right.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They're going to help you pitch a tent any place, anywhere. And the best part, it's all done online. That means you don't have to go to a doctor's office and talk to them and be like, oh, you know, I'm... I'm feeling some type of way. Look, this is not for people that are, you know, lacking necessarily.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This is for people to want to have the best experience of their life, whether it's Valentine's Day, birthday, a funeral. Who knows? Whenever you need it, you never know when you could use Blue Chew. And we have a special deal for the listeners of this program. That's right. Try your first month of Blue Chew for free. That's right. Completely free. Mark, is it going to work for me? Hey, it's free.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Why not just try it? Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Blue Chew for sponsoring this podcast. All right, now let's get after it and let's get back to the show. So next morning you wake up, cops down the block.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And you had mentioned that when the police had arrested you, that one of the cops actually had said something to you while you're getting arrested.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. Yeah. I've, I've even seen this with like my little nieces and nephews. Like my sister will just tell them like, Hey, we don't do secrets in our house. There's no secrets. Yeah. So if someone tells you to keep a secret, just tell them I can't keep secrets. Sorry. And even if your friends want to tell you a secret, just say, I don't do secrets. Just there's no need to keep a secret.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
That's it. And it sort of keeps the whole family honest, to be frank with you.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Because they'll even say stuff, you know, just about the family in front of the kids. And they're like, we shouldn't say that because no one keeps secrets. So it's just it keeps everybody honest. And it also keeps them away from predators that are using that tactic and that honesty against them.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So they're just there to get more evidence. I'm going to look guilty if I ask for a lawyer. It's like, you're going to look guilty if you don't. So ask for a lawyer. Right.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
They only gather evidence. So now you speak to your attorney and now you're just waiting in a jail cell.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
But it's the same jail that Dennis Pegg- Where he patrolled and abused inmates and took inmates home.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
This is the ultimate trapped suffocation imprisonment, literally.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
At what point do you get therapy for the first time?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
How does it feel to have this secret that you've pushed down for so long now open to everyone?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Was there any part of it that was liberating that it was just gone?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And this is what we were talking about a little bit before. This idea of stranger danger, I think, was predicated with good intention off of, you know, these movies, this, you know, this... sort of cultural panic around child abduction and abuse where, you know, vans would come up and abduct kids. And it was so terrifying and awful.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You know, you had cases like Johnny Gosch and Etan Pats and these infamous cases that are just so brutal where these children just vanish. And as a result, the media runs with these stories and they say, you know, be careful of strangers. sort of, I think, unfortunately neglecting the fact that I think it's like, what you said, 95% of sexual abuse cases are from a known person to the family.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I've heard that the quote said that the things you truly want exist on the other side of what you fear the most. Yeah. And that feeling of, oh, I can't confront this. If I say this, it'll be dead. It's actually the liberation on the other side is you got to go through the fear though.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Oh, really? I didn't know it was such a popular prison book.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Right. Whether, you know, a relative, uncle, coach, something like that. Yep. So I think that is another thing for parents to be aware of is that, look, of course, have a stranger danger, use, you know, sense, but also keep an eye on the people that are within the sort of inner or close circles. You have to, dude.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And so once you start going to therapy, do things kind of start to click in place? Do you start to kind of see how the behavior was connected to the trauma?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
you know running running running running running just everything you know like um instead of healing you know and uh so i've just been on a healing journey man yeah and that initial trauma just creates more trauma i wonder if there's people listening to this that have never dealt with people who have been you know had these kinds of childhood abuse stories
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
that it's not necessarily oh everything is because of that one event it's that that one event caused everything and that that one event caused the lack of intimacy with a relationship and then the lack of intimacy with relationship then caused your next relation you you endured trauma from that first relationship and then your next relationship you still had baggage from the first one and then that created more baggage and it all compounds and it creates this debt of trauma
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
that until you start to address the initial thing, continues to build on itself. And it just creates this ripple throughout your entire life that, I mean, is the biggest suffocation of all.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And they're just like, this is normal to me. I've heard it said that we seek the pain that we feel most comfortable with.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that this, you know, if you had an abusive father, for example, like it's possible that the male relationships you emulate later have that same pain cycle that you had, you know, early in childhood and without even being cognizant that, oh, I'm replicating these things that I experienced early on. And it's not your fault that these things happen to you or that you were born to the situation.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
You're the victim of it, but you have the ability and the freedom to break yourself from these cycles. And that's a very liberating feeling. But to be stuck in it is just, without knowing is, I mean, it's a different type of hell.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So when you're in prison and people look at your paperwork and they see what you're in for, are they cool with it?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Yeah. And I think predators also are aware of this, which is why they assume positions of high authority. Like they will become priests and they will become lieutenants and they will take on these positions within the society that have high moral standing because who would ever suspect? Right.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
So there was some respect in the prison for- Yeah, yeah.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
I mean, you gotta wonder if there's an element. I think this is actually coming up a little bit now, like within rap music. But so many people within impoverished, poor communities, many of them black and brown, that get sexually abused never talk about it.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And so I wonder how many of these guys in prison, some of like, you know, the toughest dudes you can imagine, they got sexually abused as kids.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And even in prison, never brought it up. Maybe they lived lives of, you know, crime, drugs, gang violence.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And that's my assumption is how cunning and evil these people are, is that they're trying to find ways to basically wear morality while doing the most deviant act.
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
Right. Yeah. So at this, the Newark prison, you serve... How many years there?
Camp Gagnon
I Stabbed And Killed My Childhood Abuser
And then once you're released, how do you start putting your life back together?